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Old 12-14-2008, 07:50 PM   #1
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Hello folks
I'm a JACK OF ALL TRADES MASTER OF NONE GUY.I've renovated a number of homes and have done most of it myself.I used to install flooring for a living and quote for same so a tape measure is not unfamiliar.I do have a problem now I am trying to rectify but am not having much luck . I've ordered 6 new windows recently only to discover the dimensions are reverse from my order sheet . I have discovered since ordering that the industry standard is width by height , I am confident I placed my order height by width as this is how it is written on my sheet . question : has anyone encountered this and if so have you been successful in any compensation .
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Yetman

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Old 12-14-2008, 08:08 PM   #2
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As stated, the industry-standard window measurement dimension-template is that the first number is the width, the second number is the height = Width x Height.
If you gave the numbers (placed your order) as you stated: height by width, then you messed up.

I cannot state if the sales rep should have caught that or not, as I am not privy to the conversation's details.


Whether the company you ordered it from, or the sales rep can do anything to try and help you, I have no idea...

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Old 12-14-2008, 09:19 PM   #3
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Expensive mistake! Generally if you have a long term relationship with a window company they will help you out as much as possible. If you ordered them from a retail store see if they are willing to sell the mis-ordered windows in their throw out bin and discount your new order.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:06 PM   #4
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Id try calling the salesman first.

This order sheet...was it supplied by the salesman or window comapny? If so does it state which dimension is written first? If you complied with the order sheet then it should their mistake.

If it simply looks like this ( ___ X ___ ) without a measurment description then you may be in trouble.
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Old 12-15-2008, 03:35 PM   #5
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Thanks kindly for the replies I do appreciate them.Every reply is similar in respect that I made a mistake when I ordered the windows however I have never heard of this standard nor was I told to give the measurements starting with the width. The window company used to be somewhat friends however things have taken a turn for the worse as this issue is heading to small claims.Their arguement is simply I should have known the industry standard and have found out since the only people to know this are contractors.I was clear in giving my dimensions however the years of taking measurements must have discarded the dimensions with the measurements as they had only written down the measurements without indication of dimension then transferred onto a contract in reverse.I accepted the contract and signed it without any review as I unfortunately assumed they would be as given.Everyone is right that it is an expensive mistake but I am having trouble accepting 100% blame.I thought it more than fair to split the loss as I believe they as the professionals should at least have caught the dimensions when I ordered as I would have no idea what he was expecting first.Any support or everyone believe the blame falls solely on someone new to the process.(I wont do it again)
Thanks kindly and appreciate the debate
Yetman
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Old 12-15-2008, 03:51 PM   #6
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You can't assume that anyone totally understands what you are trying to say. For example, I replaced the windows in my old house and in talking to a window guy (who was a casual friend) I told him I needed a five oh - five oh window. As he was looking up the prices, he said OK, 50 inches by 50 inches. I said, not fifty inches, five oh or sixty inches by sixty inches.

I guess I've learned that when I assume or get in a hurry, it usually comes back to haunt me.

Personally, I think you are hosed especially if they are odd shaped special order windows.
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Old 12-15-2008, 03:59 PM   #7
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Who's fault is it when your coffee is too hot? That's what I thought. My opinion your fault, I guess we will see what the judge says.
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Old 12-15-2008, 04:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yetman View Post
....I accepted the contract and signed it without any review as I unfortunately assumed they would be as given.
Everyone is right that it is an expensive mistake but I am having trouble accepting 100% blame....
This is the pivitol point in the whole issue. When you receive a contract, it is your responsibility to review and correct any wrong information, or approve it. That is the point of a "written" contract. Once you sign it, then it is a legal document stating that you approved the work. The responsibility then falls completely on your shoulders.

Quote:
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....
I thought it more than fair to split the loss as I believe they as the professionals should at least have caught the dimensions when I ordered as I would have no idea what he was expecting first...
That is what you would have hoped to have happened. However, it is not their job to help you figure out the details in your order.
The big box stores offer that help, because they primarily deal with Home Owners. But supply companies do not do that. It is above and beyond their sales staff's job. Their job is to educate you on the products that they sell. Take the information pertinent to your order, and place your order.
It is your job to confirm all onsite factors (measurements). That includes the dimensional details. They will assume that every person placing an order, knows what they are doing. The large majority, will not check, to see if you know, nor will they walk you thru a beginner's education process.
It is the same when ordering from other suppliers; doors, countertops, kitchen cabinets, etc, etc...

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Originally Posted by yetman View Post
....
Any support or everyone believe the blame falls solely on someone new to the process.(I wont do it again)...
Sorry, but, it's your fault.
You are not the first to make this mistake. It does happen from time to time. When it does, the Contractor ends up taking the hit. Sometimes you'll see ads on craig's list, or in the newspaper, that state: Brand new windows, or, brand new kitchen cabinets, never installed. 99% of the time, it's because somebody goofed, and the person is trying to get some money back on the mistake...to cut their losses.
I'm sorry to throw this in, but, this is just another example of why some people opt to hire an experienced person to do the work.

I've stated this in prior posts; there are some headaches that can be avoided, if you hire the right company, or person, to do the work. If you do the work your self, you are taking certain risks. When you take those risks, be prepared to absorb any consequences that may arise.

Good Luck.
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:32 PM   #9
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Thanks Fellas,although I dont feel very good about the lack of support I do understand that I accepted the contract with my dimensions reversed.Now to coplicate this a touch I'll explain that they themselves are careless with their own contract and the bottom line is if you sign then you lose . Let me explain . I have an affidavit signed by a past customer of theirs I came across while trying to find resolve . This company went to a single mothers home to measure and quote on new windpws , when the quote was received a discussion took place about the removal of grills from the window at the rear of the home.The estimator which is the company owner and the same person I am dealing with agreed with this lady about the grills and said it would also save her some money so he proceeded to cross out the grills for the window at the rear of the home.When the order came in it was discovered that the window he stroked out was one for the side of the home which was visible to the street and not the window they discussed . The blame was put solely on the customer as the estimator said that she had signed the contract and therefore was not his problem ,In this case this lady would not know which window was which anf the company again refused any responsibilty . I think this may establish somewhat of a concern with the companies customer relations if not a concern with the contract itself .I appreciate any comments and will file the judges decision
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:14 AM   #10
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The window company should have clarified the dimensions at the time the order went in. Homeowners are notoriously clueless about windows. They can't measure; and when they can, they don't know what to measure for the product they want.
On double hungs, it's easy to pick up the mistake. But on windows that are almost square, there will be no flags raised as to the absurdity of the numbers.
What I don't understand, is that, when you order windows , you don't just give the guy two numbers and let him figure out which number is which dimension. You have a list with these dimensions written down under a catagory, such as "L x W." After all the particulars are discussed, they print out the order and have you look at it to make sure it's correct. You compare their listing to your listing and either make corrections or sign the bottom affirming the page.
Are you saying at no time did you review this?
When I'm writing the check, I make sure the products I ordered are the ones I can use. I have little or no faith in the person taking the order to correct anything. I'm usually surprised they can dress themselves.
Ron
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:40 AM   #11
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Fortunately I had a better experience ordering my windows than yetman did. After searching around and checking out a few window suppliers I went to a supply company with a good reputation for the area and a very helpful salesman. My salesman dotted every i and croseed every T and he thouroghly reviewed every transaction on paper with me before I signed it; measurements, style, colors ..etc .At no time did he try to give any installation advice as this was not his position, but he did offer advice on measuring the RO and how to make a decision on size of the window to order.

As this was my first time installing windows I only ordered 2 for my first order, just in case I made a mistake and didnt bite off more than I could chew.

Its an expensive learning curve Yetman but you learned alot from this experience that will likely carry over into other purchases you make, not just home improvement. As Atlantic said, maybe try to sell them on craigslist to make some money back, or if they are close to square and you are feeling squirly you can resize the RO to make them fit. Good luck!
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:12 AM   #12
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Thanks Guys
So it sounds like its everyones opinion that I am guilty as charged . If you were to determine resposibility percentages after reviewing the arguements will I be 100 % guilty or does the business hold some as I am a layman.
Thanks again
Yetman
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yetman View Post
Thanks Guys
So it sounds like its everyones opinion that I am guilty as charged . If you were to determine resposibility percentages after reviewing the arguements will I be 100 % guilty or does the business hold some as I am a layman.
Thanks again
Yetman
Don't beat your self up too bad over this, tho your wallet will feel it.

Let me just say, that, for contractors (all of us), have indeed made either the exact mistake, similar mistakes, or have dealt with sales reps making mistakes. We have all learned from those goof-ups.

I'll give you two recent examples:

1. New Gutter installation: I was so concerned about properly matching the existing gray colored downspouts on a home (we were installing additional gutters and downspouts), that I neglected to emphasize to the supplier that the gutters were standard white. I was reviewing the order on the morning of the material delivery (seamless gutters), when I realized that two colors had not been clarified. White gutters & light gray downspouts. Well, I caught them by cell, but they had already rolled out two 55' sections of gray gutter instead of white. In talking with the supplier, I knew I had made the mistake (it was my responsibility to make the order clear, and to check it over). So I "man-upped", admitted that I felt responsible, and asked him if there was anything thta he could do to "help me out" with that. He agreed to give me whole sale cost on the gray sections. I was going to paint them white and use them for a future job, but I ended up painting them and using them on my own house instead.

2. I recently had to match a section of half round colored vinyl siding panels on the 4th floor of a building. These were a pain to track down, as the particular manufacturer's line is not carried by any of the local or national suppliers in my region. I had to call Canada, and finally track down a company in the next state (1 hr drive). I had a worker bring a sample of the material (off the building) to the supplier to put an order in. Needless to say, the supplier repeatedly dropped the ball on this. 6 weeks later, the material finally comes in. I send a worker to pick up the shipment. He gets to the jobsite, and opens up one of the boxes to find that they had ordered white, and not the color we asked for (that we had gone thru the trouble of bringing up to them). I call them, and the sales rep says that he does remember the section, they did remember that we had located the color, but "someone" had messed up the color on the order. Great job!!. They ask if I want to bring it back, and re-order? I told them forget it I can't wait another 6 weeks on the correct color, we'll just have to put this up, and paint it. Anyways, that's what we did. The existing siding was a little dirty, so I had one of the workers do some test painting on extra panels, with a little "dirt" mixed into the paint = perfect match!!.

What can you learn from this: Mistakes happen. Human error is common. It can be because of you, or because of someone else. You just have to be creative with it; when life throw you lemons...you know the rest of the saying....

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