not sure what to do about moisture buildup in bathroom?

mayhem69 · 01-29-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjordan392

<We don't turn the heat on upstairs till around 7 or 8 pm, then all 4 of us take showers right after another. I did go up just now to feel the ceiling, it is just a little colder then the walls upstairs (t-stat is set to 60). So i guess that's normal being the roof is there.>

Then this appears to be the main cause. The upstairs walls and ceiling are much cooler and when they are exposed to a lot of sudden warm vapor, then the vapor will condense much faster on them and your exhaust fan is no match under these conditions. If you turn the heat on upstairs much sooner, the temperature of the walls and ceiling will also rise and you will have little or no condensation.

I am going to move the electric heater to the bathroom tonight and warm it up before showering. Thanks for this suggestion.

harleysilo · 01-29-2009, 09:03 AM

I'm looking forward to reading the results tomorrow morning. I think the problem has been discovered.

rjordan392 · 01-29-2009, 04:13 PM

The electrical heaters that I have seen come with a two wire plug. These are not safe to use in bathrooms. Now if they came with a two wire plus gounding wire, then I believe it would be ok and as long as it is plugged into a ground fault circuit interupter. The potential for water spill on the floor and making body contact with the heater or even having your hands in water while making contact could possibly result in a dangerous shock, if the heater malfunctions. I think an electrician might have to step in and give an opinion.
You would be better off and safer if you turn the heat on for the second floor. However, look into the pro's and con's of a combination fan/heater. This might work for you. I have no experience with these at all. But I do think that with both the fan and heater running, it defeats the purpose.

jaros bros. · 01-29-2009, 04:48 PM

Ummmmm, so what are you going to accomplish? The conclusion was that warm air hitting a cold surface produces condensation. So you are going to heat the air even more? It will only produce more condensation. You need to deal with one or both of the factors that are causing your condensation. One being your walls and ceiling might not have enough insulation and two being that your fan is not removing the moist air from your bathroom.

Josh Jaros

buletbob · 01-29-2009, 05:59 PM

[quote=jaros bros.;221524]Ummmmm, so what are you going to accomplish? The conclusion was that warm air hitting a cold surface produces condensation.
Yes We Agreed on this.
So you are going to heat the air even more? It will only produce more condensation.
No it will produce less condensation. there will still be condensation but less of it now that the temp is gong to be above 60 degree's. It would be the same as when you go out doors in the cold and your breath expels warm air which turns to water vapor. but does not during the summer. I feel that if the ceiling surface was to be above 60 Degrees there should be less condensation on the ceiling surface and then the fan should be able to do its job. as long as your other questions are met. Whats your opion on this Josh.

Simply Sal · 01-30-2009, 01:08 AM

Hi there... I have installed about 2 dozen of the Panasonic ulta silent fans... they are worth the install and are not that difficult... the important thing is the 4" smooth ducting product that is well insulated and sealed with foil tape. We seal all areas around the fan housing from the attic side so there is no opportunity for air leaks.
We are located on the west coast in the rain forest and deal with mould on a continual basis... air circulation is important.. I would change the idea of each person showering after each other... build up of humidity that I don't think your current fan can handle.
We encourage all persons to operate these fans 24/7 from Oct. to April in this climate.. they have a great energy track record as far as operating costs go. Those who have humidistats are encouraged to use those as well.
This is mainly co-op housing and government housing.. basic building code work.
Good luck.. lots of great suggestions happening...

rjordan392 · 01-30-2009, 07:55 AM

Josh,
We can only advise on what is given. The poster says he has insulation but did not say how much and it was already mentioned to check it meaning:what type and thickness.
It was only after the 12 post that he said that the heat upstairs is off until they take showers, all in a row. Those upstairs ceilings have to be a lot colder then he suggests because he keeps the thermostat at 60 degrees. Now I am assuming he has a 2 zone system controlled by two thermostats. Its not the heat that causes condensation but the amount of moisture it holds and when exposed to cold surfaces. Now until the ceiling warms up, then the warm moisture laden air will have less of a chance to condense.
So the poster who is trying to cut back on his heating bill, needs to come up with a solution. Personaly, I think part of the solution in addition to what we discussed is to allow more time between showers like about 15 minutes minimum to allow the fan to pull out the moisture.
A few posters will sometimes not realized what information is needed to help them solve their questions.

mayhem69 · 01-30-2009, 09:33 AM

Ok, so i took the electric heater upstairs last night and warmed the bathroom up good before showering. After 4 of us showering the condensation was cut in half. Instead of the soaking wet ceiling, it was just wet.
I did also go out to the roof last night with the fan running. There is a good amt. of air flow coming from the exhaust. So, i am thinking about buying a more powerful exhaust. Was looking at this one from Amazon :http://www.amazon.com/Hunter-83003-A...325438&sr=8-13
Also, looking at the pics, do you guys think maybe moving the fan closer to the shower would help? Or maybe above the shower?

jaros bros. · 01-30-2009, 09:48 AM

I believe the reason your heater worked is because hot air can hold more moisture than cold air can. I think you are on a right track, realizing that you need more air flow. If you're look for a good bathroom fan you really need to check out the Panasonic line. They are not cheap but they have automatic sensors in them and they will turn the fan off and on after you leave. They are so quiet that you won't even know when they're on, and they move tons of air. There are all types of settings too, so you can adjust for volume of air and time delay after you exit the bathroom. Takes all the work out of having to return to the bathroom to turn off the fan or remembering when to turn it on.

Josh Jaros

mayhem69 · 01-30-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaros bros.

I believe the reason your heater worked is because hot air can hold more moisture than cold air can. I think you are on a right track, realizing that you need more air flow. If you're look for a good bathroom fan you really need to check out the Panasonic line. They are not cheap but they have automatic sensors in them and they will turn the fan off and on after you leave. They are so quiet that you won't even know when they're on, and they move tons of air. There are all types of settings too, so you can adjust for volume of air and time delay after you exit the bathroom. Takes all the work out of having to return to the bathroom to turn off the fan or remembering when to turn it on.

Josh Jaros

yea, i've seen the Panasonic while browsing on Ebay. I've seen a nice one for about $200. Does Panasonic make an ornamental fan like the one i linked above? Also what stores sell the Panny line. I only see those for sale on the internet?

mayhem69 · 01-30-2009, 11:43 PM

just bought this one today for $144 off Ebay, looks like a good unit.
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-FV11.../dp/B0011WWWPM

cocobolo · 01-31-2009, 01:22 AM

Is your fan the squirrel cage type or just an old fashioned fan type?
It sounds to me like a combination of things, most of which have all been mentioned.
The smooth walled pipe will be an improvement. Very likely a higher cfm fan unit will help.
Without question a good replacement air supply is in order, but it sounds like you have that well in hand.
Does your shower room gather a lot of steam when it is in use, or does the air stay reasonably clear?
Then we get back to the very basics of steam condensing on a cool surface.
If you only have your thermostat set at 60, that is likely contributing to the problem. The walls and ceiling are likely cold.

And four showers one after the other is going to put plenty of water vapor into the air.
Have you tried leaving the fan on for 20 minutes yet to see if that helps?
Other than that maybe you'll have to have something like a long handled squeegee to take the bulk of the moisture off the ceiling. Last person to use the shower gets the job!
That may be all that's needed.

cocobolo · 01-31-2009, 01:25 AM

Ooops! Sorry! I didn't read your second page before I blundered ahead.
Please for give me.

mayhem69 · 01-31-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocobolo

Is your fan the squirrel cage type or just an old fashioned fan type?
It sounds to me like a combination of things, most of which have all been mentioned.
The smooth walled pipe will be an improvement. Very likely a higher cfm fan unit will help.
Without question a good replacement air supply is in order, but it sounds like you have that well in hand.
Does your shower room gather a lot of steam when it is in use, or does the air stay reasonably clear?
Then we get back to the very basics of steam condensing on a cool surface.
If you only have your thermostat set at 60, that is likely contributing to the problem. The walls and ceiling are likely cold.

And four showers one after the other is going to put plenty of water vapor into the air.
Have you tried leaving the fan on for 20 minutes yet to see if that helps?
Other than that maybe you'll have to have something like a long handled squeegee to take the bulk of the moisture off the ceiling. Last person to use the shower gets the job!
That may be all that's needed.

I really don't think the smooth pipe would make that much of a difference. If i wanted to do this i would have to pull up the vent on my roof that is already glued down with roofing cement. Sounds like way too much work just to change the pipe. I would probably have to buy another roof vent then also. This new Panny exhaust i bought is supposed to be a lot better then the 70 cfm Nutone i bought. And yes the Nutone does have a squirrel cage. I will let you all know when i get the new one installed. Thanks for all your help!