Hi, before i remodeled my bathroom i was getting mold or mildew on the ceiling because of all the moisture. I do have a 70 cfm exhaust and the room is about 65 sq. ft. with 8 ft. ceiling. However i did use very cheap paint in the bathroom 10 yrs. ago.
Just finished completely remodeling the bathroom with new bath and surround, Behr bath paint.
There are 4 of us taking showers in there and when we're done the ceiling is soaking wet, along with the upper part of the walls. Is this normal? I checked the exhaust fan by putting a piece of paper up to it and it does suck it in. I am attaching a picture, check it out and tell me what you guys recommend. My mom did buy those 2 x 2 plastic squares from Lowes for $20/pc. and glued them to her ceiling. I just don't know if i'm freaking out for nothing, but i know i don't want the mold on the ceiling again. But now i do have bath paint on the ceiling and walls. Any suggestions please! pic attached
lets understand the princible of the exhaust fan. when the fan is in the on position it is going to pull the air from the room to the exterior of the house. where is the replenishing air going to come from? that 1/4" space under the door? That's not enough! try opening the bottom sash of that window about 3" when your in the shower and when the fan is on. you will see a big difference. the room needs to have replenishing air, which in turn, will help pull out all the steam being generated from the hot showers.
another solution would be to install the fan on a turn dial timer. this way the fan continues to run when you leave the room and the door being left open.
or you could install an AC grill in the low part of the wall on both sides to get the air circulating.
also make sure the exhaust piping is installed pitching out word so any water from the condensation will drain outside through the exhaust vent.
Hope this was of some help to you. BOB
Thanks for your reply Bob. When we shower the door is usually left wide open. Tomorrow night i will try closing the door and opening the window 3" like you said and see what happens.
Thanks for your reply Bob. When we shower the door is usually left wide open. Tomorrow night i will try closing the door and opening the window 3" like you said and see what happens.
This one is beyond me then! if your saying the door is left open.
Like mentioned above check the piping and make sure it has a clear exist, all whats mentioned above are points worth looking into.
Do you leave the shower door open when you leave the room to help get the air circulating around the shower stall?.
Nice clean looking bath - it would be a shame to see it mold on you again.
I've seen fans that will pass the paper test but still are not effective due to blow by in the housing. Pull the cover and make sure the exhaust line is properly sealed - if exhaust air is leaking there it will just blow back out around the cover.
Make sure your exterior vent is not clogged - or - if it vents to a side wall like ours - that the vent door is opening properly when it's in use.
You may just need a larger fan - there are models where the motor is installed in the attic in the middle of the line. They move tons of air and are quiet because the fan motor is away from the ceiling.
You know Mayhem i was just looking at your pictures and a thought came to mind. that paint! is it semi gloss? I'm wondering, and like others to chime in on this thought! if it is , I thinking its acting as a vapor barrier and there for the shower area would have to be wiped down after each shower. if the steam was to remain there then the mold will show up after time.
Just a thought. BOB.
Any decent paint would act as a vapor barrier. IMO you don't have sufficient airflow. With the room door closed but not latched.. it should pull the door open if the room is not getting enough intake air. This is not a big deal as most will shower and exit, leaving the fan on and the bathroom door open. Plenty of intake air there. Check your vent pipe as suggested above, cracking a window during the shower always helps if weather permits. Limit those long hot showers! lol. Install a humidistat rather then running the fan just off a switch... most people do not leave the fan on long enough.
Cheers
Here is what I did to mine and it helped a ton. Take a roll of foil tape and seal up all of the gaps in the inner housing - the most critical part is to run a seam of tape where the housing meets the ceiling. Do this in addition to making sure the exaust pipe is sealed to the housing. This way the housing is air tight and the actual blade can pull the air through without letting it escape or having to pull extra air from the ceiling cavity.
Yes, it is normal for water to condense on the walls and ceilings when a hot shower is run. The question is , "Does the moisture disappear after the fan is run?" If the answer is yes, we're done. If not, what's wrong? Is the fan on long enough? It should run at least 10 minutes. As said before, "Is there enough make up air?" How far is the duct run? Did you use the plastic venting product or the smooth sided metal? Is the exterior vent buried under snow?
I always recommend a simple timer as it turns the fan off automatically.
Ron
1. check the blower wheel for buildup of residue; this cuts back on air removal and the flapper valve for free play.
2. you should have a four inch duct tied into the exhaust. The cfm rating of the fan is for free air. The length of this duct to the outside also determines the resistance to air flow and lowers the actual air/moisture removal. So its possible that you may be undersize.
3. If the ceiling is cold, you have insufficient insulation.
4. seal up the housing as vetting suggests.
5. Install a timer to the fan to run about 10 minutes after showering.
6. Check the sq. ft. area under the door; it should match the area of a 4 inch duct. Trim the door or add a intake in the wall if you have to.
Your post suggests to me that family members are almost waiting in line to take a shower. This is another indication that your fan is undersized or is not getting a chance to run longer between uses of the shower.
Your first order of business is to check the minor things first, then check out that "How To Article" as suggested above.
Some nice info. there from all of you. The vent is installed on the roof and the duct is 4". It is only about a 2 ft. run with regular flexible duct from HD. The paint is Behr bath paint, it's call Sateen Lustre, looks like semi-gloss to me. It does seem insulated above the ceiling, i noticed all of it when i installed the exhaust. We don't turn the heat on upstairs till around 7 or 8 pm, then all 4 of us take showers right after another. I did go up just now to feel the ceiling, it is just a little colder then the walls upstairs (t-stat is set to 60). So i guess that's normal being the roof is there.
I am going to pull down the unit like suggested and make sure the flexible duct is secure and no holes in it. I am also kicking myself for buying that Nutone 70 cfm from HD. The housing measures 14 1/2" x 8". Do you guys know how hard it is to find a good unit with at least those dimensions? I wanted to buy a Panasonic exhaust 100 cfm or more, but can't find one to fit. Really didn't want to get into patching up 5 inches of the hole being i am terrible at spackling. Anyway thanks for all the suggestions and i will keep you posted with some results.
The fan is likely too new to be clogged yet but check the damper on the fan body exhasut where it meets the pipe. If it is hanging open with fan off it is installed backward,... mine was.:yes:
All the steam was backing up. These often get knocked off in handling it's only 50/50 that they go back on the right way.........
Ditch the corrugated vent pipe and go smooth for less air drag. Corrugation causes air to bounce.
Check the damper on the roof to see that it is opening smoothly
Worst case, buy the Panasonic and cover it with the Nutone grill.
Get a low flow shower head and reduce your water output. Less water should produce less steam
Finally, even after an energy audit it was suggested by the auditor I run my fans 20 minutes after showering.
<We don't turn the heat on upstairs till around 7 or 8 pm, then all 4 of us take showers right after another. I did go up just now to feel the ceiling, it is just a little colder then the walls upstairs (t-stat is set to 60). So i guess that's normal being the roof is there.>
Then this appears to be the main cause. The upstairs walls and ceiling are much cooler and when they are exposed to a lot of sudden warm vapor, then the vapor will condense much faster on them and your exhaust fan is no match under these conditions. If you turn the heat on upstairs much sooner, the temperature of the walls and ceiling will also rise and you will have little or no condensation.
<We don't turn the heat on upstairs till around 7 or 8 pm, then all 4 of us take showers right after another. I did go up just now to feel the ceiling, it is just a little colder then the walls upstairs (t-stat is set to 60). So i guess that's normal being the roof is there.>
Then this appears to be the main cause. The upstairs walls and ceiling are much cooler and when they are exposed to a lot of sudden warm vapor, then the vapor will condense much faster on them and your exhaust fan is no match under these conditions. If you turn the heat on upstairs much sooner, the temperature of the walls and ceiling will also rise and you will have little or no condensation.
Excelant point I was thinking the same thing as I was reading that sentence. Just like a glass of cold water in the summer. Good point RJORDAN :thumbup:BOB
The electrical heaters that I have seen come with a two wire plug. These are not safe to use in bathrooms. Now if they came with a two wire plus gounding wire, then I believe it would be ok and as long as it is plugged into a ground fault circuit interupter. The potential for water spill on the floor and making body contact with the heater or even having your hands in water while making contact could possibly result in a dangerous shock, if the heater malfunctions. I think an electrician might have to step in and give an opinion.
You would be better off and safer if you turn the heat on for the second floor. However, look into the pro's and con's of a combination fan/heater. This might work for you. I have no experience with these at all. But I do think that with both the fan and heater running, it defeats the purpose.
Ummmmm, so what are you going to accomplish? The conclusion was that warm air hitting a cold surface produces condensation. So you are going to heat the air even more? It will only produce more condensation. You need to deal with one or both of the factors that are causing your condensation. One being your walls and ceiling might not have enough insulation and two being that your fan is not removing the moist air from your bathroom.
Ummmmm, so what are you going to accomplish? The conclusion was that warm air hitting a cold surface produces condensation. Yes We Agreed on this.
So you are going to heat the air even more? It will only produce more condensation. No it will produce less condensation. there will still be condensation but less of it now that the temp is gong to be above 60 degree's. It would be the same as when you go out doors in the cold and your breath expels warm air which turns to water vapor. but does not during the summer. I feel that if the ceiling surface was to be above 60 Degrees there should be less condensation on the ceiling surface and then the fan should be able to do its job. as long as your other questions are met. Whats your opion on this Josh. :wink:
Hi there... I have installed about 2 dozen of the Panasonic ulta silent fans... they are worth the install and are not that difficult... the important thing is the 4" smooth ducting product that is well insulated and sealed with foil tape. We seal all areas around the fan housing from the attic side so there is no opportunity for air leaks.
We are located on the west coast in the rain forest and deal with mould on a continual basis... air circulation is important.. I would change the idea of each person showering after each other... build up of humidity that I don't think your current fan can handle.
We encourage all persons to operate these fans 24/7 from Oct. to April in this climate.. they have a great energy track record as far as operating costs go. Those who have humidistats are encouraged to use those as well.
This is mainly co-op housing and government housing.. basic building code work.
Good luck.. lots of great suggestions happening...
Josh,
We can only advise on what is given. The poster says he has insulation but did not say how much and it was already mentioned to check it meaning:what type and thickness.
It was only after the 12 post that he said that the heat upstairs is off until they take showers, all in a row. Those upstairs ceilings have to be a lot colder then he suggests because he keeps the thermostat at 60 degrees. Now I am assuming he has a 2 zone system controlled by two thermostats. Its not the heat that causes condensation but the amount of moisture it holds and when exposed to cold surfaces. Now until the ceiling warms up, then the warm moisture laden air will have less of a chance to condense.
So the poster who is trying to cut back on his heating bill, needs to come up with a solution. Personaly, I think part of the solution in addition to what we discussed is to allow more time between showers like about 15 minutes minimum to allow the fan to pull out the moisture.
A few posters will sometimes not realized what information is needed to help them solve their questions.
Ok, so i took the electric heater upstairs last night and warmed the bathroom up good before showering. After 4 of us showering the condensation was cut in half. Instead of the soaking wet ceiling, it was just wet.
I did also go out to the roof last night with the fan running. There is a good amt. of air flow coming from the exhaust. So, i am thinking about buying a more powerful exhaust. Was looking at this one from Amazon :http://www.amazon.com/Hunter-83003-...f=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1233325438&sr=8-13
Also, looking at the pics, do you guys think maybe moving the fan closer to the shower would help? Or maybe above the shower?
I believe the reason your heater worked is because hot air can hold more moisture than cold air can. I think you are on a right track, realizing that you need more air flow. If you're look for a good bathroom fan you really need to check out the Panasonic line. They are not cheap but they have automatic sensors in them and they will turn the fan off and on after you leave. They are so quiet that you won't even know when they're on, and they move tons of air. There are all types of settings too, so you can adjust for volume of air and time delay after you exit the bathroom. Takes all the work out of having to return to the bathroom to turn off the fan or remembering when to turn it on.
yea, i've seen the Panasonic while browsing on Ebay. I've seen a nice one for about $200. Does Panasonic make an ornamental fan like the one i linked above? Also what stores sell the Panny line. I only see those for sale on the internet?
Is your fan the squirrel cage type or just an old fashioned fan type?
It sounds to me like a combination of things, most of which have all been mentioned.
The smooth walled pipe will be an improvement. Very likely a higher cfm fan unit will help.
Without question a good replacement air supply is in order, but it sounds like you have that well in hand.
Does your shower room gather a lot of steam when it is in use, or does the air stay reasonably clear?
Then we get back to the very basics of steam condensing on a cool surface.
If you only have your thermostat set at 60, that is likely contributing to the problem. The walls and ceiling are likely cold.
And four showers one after the other is going to put plenty of water vapor into the air.
Have you tried leaving the fan on for 20 minutes yet to see if that helps?
Other than that maybe you'll have to have something like a long handled squeegee to take the bulk of the moisture off the ceiling. Last person to use the shower gets the job!
That may be all that's needed.
I really don't think the smooth pipe would make that much of a difference. If i wanted to do this i would have to pull up the vent on my roof that is already glued down with roofing cement. Sounds like way too much work just to change the pipe. I would probably have to buy another roof vent then also. This new Panny exhaust i bought is supposed to be a lot better then the 70 cfm Nutone i bought. And yes the Nutone does have a squirrel cage. I will let you all know when i get the new one installed. Thanks for all your help!
Ooops! Sorry! I didn't read your second page before I blundered ahead.
Please for give me.
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