Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > DIY Repair > General DIY Discussions

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-18-2012, 12:42 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20
Share |
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


I've had 3 water heater/softener salesmen talk to me. Currently, I have an 11 year old 40 gallon water heater and hard water. Two salesmen told me my water heater is running on borrowed time. (A neighbor with the same type of house, built at the same time had hers leak last year and the water didn't run down the drain, but into the hallway instead. I don't want that to happen in my house.) The third guy- the licensed plumber with teenagers at home advised me to keep the old tank and add a 50 gallon because it would be more hot water. (I have a husband and 6 kids. We use a lot of hot water.) Salesman number one told us we needed a tankless water heater and only gave use quotes for it, but I researched and my husband talked to the guy at Lowes and apparently they aren't good in Utah. Besides, they are super expensive to install. Second guy told me a 50 gallon tank would be too big and I was stuck replacing with a 40 gallon. Plumber told me a 50 gallon tank would easily fit. Salesman number 1 sells the ge water heaters. (His company installs for Home depot.) Salesman number 2 sells whatever I want. (I don't know the prices.) Plumber sells bradford white. He told me that his company is one of the few that has licensed plumbers installing water heaters. That's good, right? My husband is smitten by the Lowe's prices and the 10% off coupon, though. Plumber guy would put in a 50 gallon bradford white water heater and a 45k water softener for around $2300. Is that reasonable? Would a Lowe's water heater and softener installed by their service people be fine or a bad idea? I read on the internet that if one were to buy a water heater from a big box store, that home depot would be the way to go. Plumber says that the home depot company makes you pay for an unnecessary annual inspection. Plumber's water softener comes with a lifetime warranty. I like the sound of the plumber, but I don't want to be taken in. Help me make good decisions!


Last edited by christineka; 01-18-2012 at 12:44 AM.
christineka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 03:46 AM   #2
paper hanger and painter
 
chrisn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hagerstown MD
Posts: 6,635
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


Quote:
Originally Posted by christineka View Post
I've had 3 water heater/softener salesmen talk to me. Currently, I have an 11 year old 40 gallon water heater and hard water. Two salesmen told me my water heater is running on borrowed time. (A neighbor with the same type of house, built at the same time had hers leak last year and the water didn't run down the drain, but into the hallway instead. I don't want that to happen in my house.) The third guy- the licensed plumber with teenagers at home advised me to keep the old tank and add a 50 gallon because it would be more hot water. (I have a husband and 6 kids. We use a lot of hot water.) Salesman number one told us we needed a tankless water heater and only gave use quotes for it, but I researched and my husband talked to the guy at Lowes and apparently they aren't good in Utah. Besides, they are super expensive to install. Second guy told me a 50 gallon tank would be too big and I was stuck replacing with a 40 gallon. Plumber told me a 50 gallon tank would easily fit. Salesman number 1 sells the ge water heaters. (His company installs for Home depot.) Salesman number 2 sells whatever I want. (I don't know the prices.) Plumber sells bradford white. He told me that his company is one of the few that has licensed plumbers installing water heaters. That's good, right? My husband is smitten by the Lowe's prices and the 10% off coupon, though. Plumber guy would put in a 50 gallon bradford white water heater and a 45k water softener for around $2300. Is that reasonable? Would a Lowe's water heater and softener installed by their service people be fine or a bad idea? I read on the internet that if one were to buy a water heater from a big box store, that home depot would be the way to go. Plumber says that the home depot company makes you pay for an unnecessary annual inspection. Plumber's water softener comes with a lifetime warranty. I like the sound of the plumber, but I don't want to be taken in. Help me make good decisions!

If you trust the plumber, I would listen to him over a salesman anyday.

chrisn is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to chrisn For This Useful Post:
DangerMouse (01-18-2012), gregzoll (01-18-2012)
Old 01-18-2012, 07:32 AM   #3
MarginallyQualified
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Winston-Salem NC
Posts: 3,647
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


Quote:
Originally Posted by christineka View Post
I've had 3 water heater/softener salesmen talk to me.

Currently, I have an 11 year old 40 gallon water heater and hard water.
I have a husband and 6 kids. We use a lot of hot water.
Two salesmen told me my water heater is running on borrowed time.
That much of what they told you is at least close to right.

Quote:
Salesman number one sells the GE (His company installs for Home depot)
told us we needed a tankless water heater ...they are super expensive to install.
(No one NEED's a tankless)

Second guy told me a 50 gallon tank would be too big and I was stuck replacing with a 40 gallon. Salesman number 2 sells whatever I want. (I don't know the prices.) My husband is smitten by the Lowe's prices and the 10% off coupon, though.
The deal with Big Box is to separate the product price from the total install; especially if you're not doing the install yourself.

The $50-100 difference in product cost between an X and a Y...
will be forgotten when you're paying for the pro install too but know the split.

Quote:
Would a Lowe's water heater and softener installed by their service people be fine or a bad idea? Meh. I read on the internet that if one were to buy a water heater from a big box store, that home depot would be the way to go. Plumber says that the home depot company makes you pay for an unnecessary annual inspection (there are annual maintenance tasks that would cost at leat $100 if hired out ...but this is likely a sales pitch call).
In general... some big box hired contractors do good work and are worth working with. But none are worth having to deal through a salesman to get them. Stick with an independent licensed plumber.

Quote:
The third guy- the licensed plumber with teenagers at home advised me to keep the old tank (what old tank?) and add a 50 gallon because it would be more hot water.
With your volume of hot water needs... a second heater can make a lot of sense.

Quote:
Plumber guy would put in a 50 gallon bradford white water heater and a 45k water softener for around $2300. Is that reasonable?
Help me make good decisions!
Separate the water heater job from the softener job.
Even if you have the same guy do the whole job at one time...
know how much of it is the WH and how much is the softener and whether you need the softener (now) as much as you (likely) need the WH now.

Last edited by TarheelTerp; 01-18-2012 at 07:38 AM.
TarheelTerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 07:50 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WV
Posts: 2,857
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


What brand of softener is the plumber recommending that has a lifetime warranty? What does the warranty cover? Even companies like Culligan don't offer something like that. If I were you, I'd get a quote from Culligan or another softener company for comparison. Their quote will include them installing it - you won't need a third-party plumber. Shouldn't in any case; softeners aren't difficult to install.
md2lgyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 08:34 AM   #5
DIY staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 21,119
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


I didn't read all of this---so if someone covered this point--sorry.

Modern water heaters may need repairs during their life time---More safety sensors and the like---

Buy a brand from a local plumbing supply house that stocks repair parts!!!!

Parts must be available--right now--

-the big box stores do not carry parts for the heaters that they install---

you will need to wait a week for the mail order parts.

You may have to pay for two service calls also---One to find the bad part and order it--another to install the part.

Buy only a heater from a supplier that stocks parts-----------
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 09:49 AM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


The water heater is $750 installed. The 43k water softener is either $1875 with a "free" reverse osmosis unit for under the sink or $1595 without. The water heater price is $100 more if we just want the water heater. We really want a softener too. The licensed plumber is not independent. He works for a plumbing company. He is a water softener specialist. The company is Shamrock.

The old water heater that the plumber recommended keeping is the 11 year old one that we have now.
christineka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 11:04 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 25,546
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


Any new water heater shoud be set in a pan with a drain on it so what happened to the person next door does not happen to you.
Hard water, and a tankless heater makes no since.
The sencors that sence flow would need servicing all the time.
joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 11:27 AM   #8
MarginallyQualified
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Winston-Salem NC
Posts: 3,647
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


Quote:
Originally Posted by christineka View Post
The water heater is $750 installed.
$100 more if we just want the water heater.
Not completely outrageous... but no one is doing you any favors there.

Quote:
The licensed plumber is not independent.
He works for a plumbing company.
That's independent; (vs working through HD etc).

Quote:
The old water heater that the plumber recommended keeping
is the 11 year old one that we have now.
This is weird...
If it's still worth keeping... that means the tank is in good shape.
Either it's been maintained meticulously or you don't need a water softener.
This doesn't add up.

Quote:
The 43k water softener is either $1875 with a "free" reverse osmosis unit for under the sink or $1595 without.
I don't know anything about softeners (never needed or owned one).
TarheelTerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 11:47 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WV
Posts: 2,857
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


Quote:
Originally Posted by christineka View Post
The water heater is $750 installed. The 43k water softener is either $1875 with a "free" reverse osmosis unit for under the sink or $1595 without. The water heater price is $100 more if we just want the water heater. We really want a softener too. The licensed plumber is not independent. He works for a plumbing company. He is a water softener specialist. The company is Shamrock.

The old water heater that the plumber recommended keeping is the 11 year old one that we have now.
So you have no idea what specific brand of softener they are proposing? Shamrock deals in several, none of which I've ever heard of.
md2lgyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 11:52 AM   #10
I can tie my own shoes
 
algored2deth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 111
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


If you choose a new water tank, a pan underneath it is a great idea. Tankless are nice and all that but they are pricey because of the install. Unless you have a really good reason or know of others that have one, proceed cautiously.

I would tell you to go get two more estimates. No big box stores but independent guys. Two more plumbers would be a good start. Also check the water tank vendors websites and see if they recommend a local installer. You take your chances with any installer but since you have not made a choice yet, take your time.

Have you had your water tested? How bad is it in order to require a reverse osmosis system? Water softeners usually don't need that level. Unless you have things like mercury in your water or desalination you may not need that level of water processing.

Keep probing deeper with all of this because if you are lacking information, you will not make a good choice or be sorry that you spent way too much.

Agree with oh'mike above, buy something where you can get parts local and right away. While tanks should be maintenance free, they aren't and if you need parts, you won't suffer too much in waiting.

Last edited by algored2deth; 01-18-2012 at 11:55 AM.
algored2deth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 02:56 PM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


I called a smaller guy plumber- we used him before since he had lower prices than the other guy in town. He'll put in the 50 gallon water heater for $750. The water softener would be $12-1500, depending on what he'd have to do. (He just told me estimates on the phone and I didn't specify what size water softener I wanted and I don't know what kind he'd get.) He would seem to be less expensive for putting in the softener, but the same cost for the heater. That's good to know.

As for reverse osmosis, we don't need it, it's just that my husband is really picky about water and I want him to get fluids in him rather than living dehydrated as he has been doing. We do, however own an under sink reverse osmosis unit already- it's just at our old house. (Still trying to sell the old house.) I will ask the plumber about moving that unit to our new house. (I wish I had thought of that when I was on the phone!) Our water is hard, though and the effects are showing on my family's skin. The really expensive salesman tested our water's hardness, which showed 16 grains per gallon. I think. It was 16 something anyway.
christineka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 04:34 PM   #12
paper hanger and painter
 
chrisn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hagerstown MD
Posts: 6,635
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


Quote:
Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
Not completely outrageous... but no one is doing you any favors there.


That's independent; (vs working through HD etc).


This is weird...
If it's still worth keeping... that means the tank is in good shape.
Either it's been maintained meticulously or you don't need a water softener.
This doesn't add up.

I don't know anything about softeners (never needed or owned one).

I agree, something does not add up.
I believe in the original post is was said that they were on the city's water, would that not take care of "hard" water?. I don't know, I don't even know what hard water is; but I have lived my whole life on the east coast, so maybe it is a regional thing?
chrisn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 05:09 PM   #13
A Little Of Everything
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,118
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisn View Post
I agree, something does not add up.
I believe in the original post is was said that they were on the city's water, would that not take care of "hard" water?. I don't know, I don't even know what hard water is; but I have lived my whole life on the east coast, so maybe it is a regional thing?
No, most cities will not take care of a hard water problem, if there is one in that area. It's too expensive.

In Minnesota, we had horribly hard water. Even with softners it was tough on everything. Now in Omaha we don't even have a softner, and the water is great. Go figure.
DrHicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 08:26 AM   #14
Member
 
PoleCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,327
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


I replaced my water heater @ nearly 40 years in service. It was still working great but had started to leak a bit. I would therefore be suspect of anyone that told me an 11 year old unit was on its last leg.
PoleCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 04:35 PM   #15
paper hanger and painter
 
chrisn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hagerstown MD
Posts: 6,635
Default

Next topic: water heaters/softeners


Planned obsolescence

chrisn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cold water is warm - hot water leak under slab? Homerepairguy Plumbing 9 10-13-2010 08:17 PM
Oil fired furnace and hot water heater question steveinpa Plumbing 3 08-10-2010 08:42 AM
Well Water snuggles2010 Plumbing 3 04-13-2010 01:36 PM
How Do I Properly Shock Chlorinate a Water Softner classicflytyer Plumbing 5 07-14-2009 12:15 AM
bad valve washing machine?? drdon51 Plumbing 6 06-29-2009 01:02 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.