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Old 01-26-2009, 09:47 AM   #31
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LED Lights anyone?


I couldn't believe how bright that Mag-light is. I aimed it out toward the back of my yard at night and I could see everything back there very clearly. It's about 200+ feet back.

Thanks for the link to that website.

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Old 01-26-2009, 09:51 AM   #32
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LED Lights anyone?


not a problem at all, hope I could help ya.
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:36 PM   #33
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Thank you for the link. They sure do seem to have some good stuff there. Since I will eventually need the regular type bulbs as well as the spots, I particularly like their small 12 LED bulb. Not a bad price either when you get a quantity.
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Old 01-27-2009, 04:45 PM   #34
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Last night I spent at least two hours on the web hunting down LED info. Good heavens! How little do I know?
If I had to make a judgment, I would say that LED's seem to be in about the same position as CF's were when they first became commonly available.
Which is to say, they are having their teething problems.
It seems that every manufacturer or supplier has "The Best" LED out there. Many of them are bashing the competition. So it is difficult now for me to believe what any one supplier has to say.
However, there is always the consumer to listen to. This, it seems, may well be our saving grace.
There are a few sites on which consumers have been able to post their comments. The ones I have found to be most useful are when there has been a problem with the light they bought.
Sometimes, the seller was happy to exchange for another one. Sometimes, that was a problem and there was difficulty even with that.
There are questions about the color of the light, although if the kelvin number is given, that really shouldn't be an issue.
We are going to have to accept the fact that LED's just do not make light in the same fashion as the predecessors.
There is no doubt they run much cooler. That's a good thing IMO.
And there is no question that they are far less consumptive of electricity, and that's a good thing too.
There is no mercury, as there is in a CF bulb. Did you know that?
And there are very different types of LED, and I don't just mean how the light looks. I am still learning about this, and it seems that there is a lot more homework to do yet.
One other thing about the cost.
There seems to be a terrific range in price. I have seen spotlights in the $15 range as well as nearly $100. Yes, they have differing numbers of LED's with correspondingly different light output.
But consider this, if you are paying say 7 cents a kwh for electricity, it would take forever for the LED to pay you back in savings.
On the other hand, if you are in the 15 cent range, you would likely be fine.
And one final point - for now anyway - do not believe all those cost saving figures from the sellers. I have found far too many mathematical errors. The figures are not as rosy as they would have you believe.
I'm still checking.
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:29 PM   #35
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There are questions about the color of the light, although if the kelvin number is given, that really shouldn't be an issue
What is the difference in the color in relation to the kelvin number?
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:07 PM   #36
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That's exactly what I was referring to about when you read the consumer responses on Sam's Club site about the bulbs advertised there. And also why I suggested trying one before buying in bulk. I would assume (though that in and of itself could be wrong) that the more LEDs in a light, the better the illumination and the higher the cost. I replaced a Kiosk's display's incandescent lights with 12-LED disc lights only to find that they only offer a 'light glow' vs the 'spot' lighting we had previously. Granted, they will not need changing ever again, and if we were paying for the electricity, it would be less expensive, but if I had it to do again, I would have just kept replacing the bulbs(higher #LEDs were/are not available to fit the existing holes).
It does seem that the ones referenced before would work fine for spot lighting or under counter lighting, but not sure about their performance from a distance(ie. as a spot from 6+ feet above).
As accent lighting they would probably do great, but since energy consumption is such a concern, what about using 'directed skylights'? Great for daytime illumination, of course, not so much for night unless you could also incorporate a light into the reflecting tube.
Just another thought...
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Old 01-28-2009, 12:31 AM   #37
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Here's the short answer to the kelvin question.
A lower number, e.g. 2700K means the light is warmer. A higher number, possibly up to 6500K, means it is a cooler, possibly bluish light.
Most of us like our home lighting in the 2700K to 3000K range. You won't find much over 5000K, as that is a pretty stark color.

And regarding the number of actual LED's in any given light, I have run across examples which indicate that the number of LED's does not necessarily mean the price is higher. You would certainly think this would be the case.
Think about this. A string of christmas lights may have 50 separate LED's and only cost $10 or $15. So it does not appear to be just the LED that is driving the price. It is the manner in which the whole light is made. There is actually a fair bit of electronics in those guys. Not the christmas lights, I mean the bigger spots. But then, even a CF has electronics inside.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:30 AM   #38
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They are crazy expensive but definitely well worth it. CFLs will be obsolete in probably two years.

I work in the traffic business and for the past 5 years or so traffic signals are slowly being converted to LEDs. They use 10% of the power of incandescents, do not put out much heat at all, and last forever (5 year warranty on traffic signals).

I would say wait a little bit for the prices to drop but if you are considering switching from incandescents I would seriously consider bypassing CFLs.
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:33 PM   #39
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I think I would be inclined to agree with you, except with solar power we have to do everything possible to keep our electrical use to a minimum. So the CF was a no brainer for us here.
I am going to try a few lights, perhaps from different sources, just to see how they do.
Great thing about LED's for traffic lights! I would say that the mere fact that they are supposed to last so long would mean that, in theory anyway, they essentially won't burn out.
By any chance do you know if the constant on and off affects the life of the LED's?
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:17 PM   #40
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Not only have I seen them in use for traffic lights, but many shipping companies are using them for trailers(automotive) uses. Much brighter and less changing/failure. I almost bought a pair of the previously mentioned lights at Sams Club last night to check their lighting, but I really do not have a need for a spot light. They were $14.86 for 2 lights. They also had a set of 3 candle type lights for the same price.
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:32 PM   #41
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Are you saying TWO spot lights for less than $15?
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:58 AM   #42
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Sorry, I mis-spoke, or typed. They were the downlight/accent lights that Sparky posted a picture of on the previously page. They also had the 'candle' light 3-packs, but were out of the spots.
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:21 PM   #43
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So the best deal so far is still the one for $16, but it includes shipping. Now i have to find out if it is any good or not. A little more checking I guess.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:03 PM   #44
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Over the past few days I have run across some interesting information, which I think you all should be interested in.
Did you know that several countries, including the U. K. and Canada will be banning incandescent lights in the near future? Can the U. S. be far behind?
On one website, which has several price comparisons between their LED bulbs and CFL's and incandescents, I have noted some fairly inaccurate numbers.
Example: They have an LED called a CC Vivid which only uses 2 watts of power. Using a life expectancy of 20,000 hours for the LED, and an electricity price of 11.94 cents a KWH, the total cost of this bulb will be $42.11 which includes electricity.
They claim that the standard 13 watt CF will require an expenditure of $71.04.
This would be for all the bulbs and all the power they would consume.
The company says you would need 8 CF's at $5.00 each, an average of 2,500 hours per bulb.
Today I picked up two types of CF's, not LED's unfortunately. The spot type is a 14 watt bulb and cost $3.00 each in Canada, and the regular 13 watt cf was 4 for $5.99, or $1.50 each. The manufacturer, Sylvania in this case, lists the bulbs as having a life span of 8,000 hours.
Now using the cost/life span figures from Sylvania, and the same 11.94 cents/KWH price, the total cost of 20,000 hours use with CF's comes out to $35.54.
I have been led to believe that cost saving was one of the major benefits of the LED along with the power saving aspect.
In this case, the cost saving is actually negative. This is going to make the LED a tough sell, unless your power cost is very high.
So, a couple of questions for you.
1. Would you be willing to ante up the extra cash - remember that the vast bulk of that is up front - just to reduce your consumption?
2. Or will you wait until the cost of the LED's drop considerably so that your payback comes more quickly. I'm guessing we will need LED's to get to the $10 range or less before they really take off.
3. What is the rate you pay where you are per KWH?
Thanks.
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:26 AM   #45
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That's good information cocobolo. I don't have a problem with switching over to LED's, but if I can help it, I don't think I'll ever buy the CFL's. I like my incandescent bulbs. I've heard that about different countries taking them off the market in the near future . I guess I better stock-up .

For you and anyone else depending on solar energy and a generator, anything that uses less energy would be worth the relatively small investment for the CFL's. It's the smart way to go.

But for the average family with a continuous supply of electricity, the way I look at it is - I just don't have light bulbs turned on for any unreasonable length of time at any given time of the day or night. I think if people really want to save electricity there are other ways to save far more energy than just switching some light bulbs. It gives people a false sense of 'helping the environment'. When someone tells me they are doing their part to save the environment and they seem so proud that they are using only CFL's, I can't help but roll my eyes. They use CFL's, but they have 2 tv's (with the receivers and DVD players) running along with 1 or two computer's and monitors, plus they don't turn the light's off when they leave a room (don't need to, CFL's save money) plus the video games that are plugged in along with another tv, we charge our cell phones, mp3 players, batteries, use electric clothes dryer's (I sure do miss using a clothes line), curling iron's, hair dryers, in-floor heating, running a dishwasher instead of doing a load in the sink etc. I just don't see where spending money on slightly more efficient light bulbs but still using all the other electrical conveniences makes sense. To me, it's like ordering 3 Big Mac's, 2 X-Large fries, a chocolate shake and two apple pies at McDonald's but getting the Diet Coke because it feels good knowing that we're not consuming all those bad calories and sugar from a regular Coke .

Having said all that, I'd pay more and switch to LED's if the lighting is more natural than CFL's.

Quote:
3. What is the rate you pay where you are per KWH?
I looked on my last bill and it's a LITTLE confusing. It doesn't really give an exact amount per KWH. It's divided up like this:

Electric Delivery Charges - Delivery Surcharges $2.15 + $2.68
KWH Charge-Energy 0.047517/KWH
Power Supply Cost Recovery 0.022730/KWH
System Access Charge $6.00
Elec Distribution Charge 0.026082/KWH
Securitization Charge 0.001358/KWH
Securitization Tax Charge 0.000611/KWH
+ Sales Tax (are we paying taxes on the Securitization Tax Charge?)
add an extra 2% if the bill is paid late

Ya know, after looking at all that I have to ask, "Where can I buy those CFL bulbs?" LOL

I can't complain, there are people in Kentucky that still don't have power because of the ice storm they had last week.

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