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Old 12-03-2010, 08:47 PM   #16
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Insulate basement header with imbedded joists???


Yes and no regarding listening to Holmes guys too much. If you were to paint the interior of your basement foundation walls with a quality sealant one would think this would be a good thing, but.... the moisture will push the paint off of the concrete and you will loose your seal allowing moisture to find its way into your wall and rot your wood. If you think about how moisture works you will better understand it. If you take a glass of milk...ok beer out of the fridge and leave it on the warm counter it will soon have a layer of condensation on it, much like how your house will if you do the same with cold coming in contact with warm. So the question remains how do you stop the cold from coming into contact with the warm. In your case it would be best to seal from the outside and increase your insulation outside. Sometimes that is not always possible or not wanting to alter the exterior as it adds character of the house. I am only guess on this next part but I would think if you insulated with spray foam ( and there open cell and closed cell foams to choose from) that would be your best choice from what I can gather. Although I have not give an outright solution I hope it is better understood.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:02 PM   #17
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Insulate basement header with imbedded joists???


Well, my house was constructed in 1979 and it doesn't have fully embedded joists (with concrete going up to the top of the joist), but mine seem to be PARTIALLY embedded (with about 3" to 5" of space from the top of the concrete to the top of the 7" joist). So, some of my header board is exposed.

With the energy audit, I was told to make the insulation a minimum of R20. Could I place fiber-glass insulation, cover it with rigid board insulation (totalling R20) and then seal it on the warm side? Will that still invite a moisture problem?
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:44 PM   #18
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Insulate basement header with imbedded joists???


The foam needs to be in contact with the concrete. The f.g. should never be in contact with concrete due to condensation, as in the BSC site in my previous post on page 1.

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Old 02-13-2011, 04:49 PM   #19
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Insulate basement header with imbedded joists???


HELP!! i am also trying to prep for my 2nd energy audit & having a hard time figuring out exactly what 'embedded joists' look like, since the energy audit guy told me to insulate the basement headers but NRCan says not to if joists are embedded in concrete. is there somewhere i can find a picture of embedded joists &/or other types of basement headers?! i started poking around the basement headers & i think someone put batts in some basement headers & covered them with wood planks that don't completely fill the areas, other areas have more batt &/or white styrofoam in the header areas on top of wood planks &/or right up against the outside brick, while other areas are empty & i can see bricks (energy audit guy told me foam crap releases toxins when burn so it needs to be removed regardless of what else is or isn't done here).there appears to be no moisture, air, vapor or other barriers in place anywhere. i'm totally confused. do i remove the batts & wood? do i seal them in place & insulate on top? any help &/or links would be GREATLY appreciated...thank you....
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:52 AM   #20
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Insulate basement header with imbedded joists???


I'm also prepping for my second energy audit and just realized that I have embedded joists too. Here's a picture. Not sure what I can do, the guy at the hardware store recommended Roxul.

Any thoughts? Would Roxul allow the area to breathe properly (if I don't put up any vapour barrier, obviously)?
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:29 PM   #21
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Insulate basement header with imbedded joists???


@RobJ - i haven't been back here since i posted my question, so i must have picked up your reply-vibe or something!!

i was at a home show yesterday & the following idea was given to me by 1 of the exhibitors who worked for an eco-energy company & said this is what he would do if hired by a customer to deal with this situation (no one else has been able to help me since i started my search for knowledge):

1. apply a piece of vapor barrier against the concrete, having it extend away from the wall, & staple on 3 sides;
2. apply batt made specifically for basement headers, compressing it slightly into the area, making sure the vapor barrier extends past the batt on all sides; &
3. optional: cover, primarily for esthetic purposes.

he said this 'special' batt would have added protection against ??, moisture i think. he recommended roxul, but said he isn't up to date on all available products & there might be something better out there now.

i haven't yet searched around to see if the idea is good, useless, or could cause problems. i also didn't ask about whether or not air sealing with foam spray, the NRCan recommended treatment for basement headers with embedded joists, should also be done before adding vapor barrier & batt. my 2nd energy audit is this week, so clearly this project won't get done to qualify for a rebate, but it would be nice to warm up the hardwood floors in the living & dining rooms...
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Old 04-17-2011, 03:41 PM   #22
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Insulate basement header with imbedded joists???


I've been reasearching the same question all day . . . how to handle an embedded or partly embedded floor joist. I found this excellent acticle that discribes the approved technique for imbedded and partly imbedded floor joists. Well worth the read!


Last edited by Canadian Dave; 05-01-2011 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Added a hyperlink
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