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Old 12-23-2009, 12:16 PM   #16
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Incadescent lamp phase out question


I'm with Willie T, "as long as your convinced". There are too many unknown factors to convince me. It is obvious CFL's use less energy per lumen, but it does not mean they are cost efficient or less polluting.

I learned a lesson 25 years ago when I lived in a house with electric forced air heat about looking at the entire picture. When the house was built gas was not available. When it did become available I switched to gas heat, gas hot water, went with a new more efficient A/C unit and even added a (very expensive at the time) programmable thermostat. My overall energy cost increased 1 1/2 times which was a real shock after spending more than $4500 to make the move to gas. A lot of the cost of gas is the fixed cost you pay the gas company for billing and their pipes that get the fuel to you. Even in the summer when you are using just a little gas to heat water you are still paying the fixed costs to the gas company.

I think anyone that has no doubt in their mind about CFL's saving energy and producing less pollution have a narrow view of the total cost because it is nearly impossible for us average guy's to see the entire picture. Would anyone here bet their house that CFL's will not be outlawed in the next 10 to 20 years because new studies or scientific advances find CFL's unfit for one reason or another?

Rege

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Old 12-24-2009, 10:25 AM   #17
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Incadescent lamp phase out question


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Originally Posted by RegeSullivan View Post
Does a CFL really save that much energy? Most of the "wasted" energy is heat. Here in the north east that heat is not wasted most of the year. And, in the summer when it is waste, is the time of year we use lighting the least because of longer daylight hours. Most of the lighting in my home is CFL or florescent tubes and even some LED under cabinets but I have not noticed any difference in my total energy use when I adjust for average temperatures. I don't have the ability to figure this to the exact watt hour/MCF but I think I am pretty close.

So I am thinking with the higher cost of the bulb and since it is very likely it takes significantly more energy to make CFLs we are probably breaking even at best and maybe even losing money and polluting more?

All that said, In warm climates or for use outside it where any heat is wasted or pollution it seems reasonable to assume the savings is significant. But inside the home???

What do you think?

Rege

I think you have a very strong point! 100% of the energy from a light bulb is heat , I leave my lights on in the basement all the time figuring I might as well get something useful from all the heat I'm paying for anyway. Same thing for my water heater, it's downstairs and the small amount of heat it convects is perfect to chase humidity away in the summer months.

____pete
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:19 PM   #18
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Incadescent lamp phase out question


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I think you have a very strong point! 100% of the energy from a light bulb is heat , I leave my lights on in the basement all the time figuring I might as well get something useful from all the heat I'm paying for anyway
____pete
Light bulbs do not put out 100% heat
I did use (2) 100w light bulbs & my stereo to heat my bedroom when I was a kid
Old man kept the heat pretty low - 60 at night
Since I am getting my CFL's for free I think that's about as cost efficient as you can get

I'm willing to bet CFL's will not last that long (and hoping)
As soon as LED's drop enough in price they will take over
There are also other lighting Technologies that are still in development
Imagine having one solar panel on your house that would provide all your lighting needs (day & night)
Storage is the problem, hopefully that Tech will increase & get better
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:39 PM   #19
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Incadescent lamp phase out question


Scuba_Dave is lucky to have a source for free CFL's. I have looked for the rebates I hear about all the time but have yet to find them. Maybe it's a regional thing because I am at HD, Lowes and Ace a few time each week and never came across a significant rebate on CFL's. All that said, Dave is missing my point because he is considering only his cost and his situation. Someone is supporting the cost of the rebate. It might be the local power company, which would simply spread the cost among all the customers of that power company. It might be Home Depot covering the rebate which is spreading the cost out to all their customers just as a TV commercial for the store does. Someone is covering the cost of the development, materials and labor and all the things that go along with manufacturing and selling a product. For Dave CFL's might be the best thing since sex but my question is more global. Overall, is a CFL really more cost efficient than incandescent? I suspect they are not and as for myself I am sure they are not. That will not stop me from using them as they do have advantages for me that make them worth the cost.

Rege
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:40 PM   #20
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Incadescent lamp phase out question


Even without the instant rebate they are less then $1 each in a 4pk
Mine last 4+ years
Incandescents seemed to fail after about 6 months...in some cases days or weeks
A 4pk of incandesents were .88 + tax = ~.25 each
So if I only need to replace the incandescents once a year I break even on the CFL's in 4 years on cost alone
Once you factor in the cost of electricity here - .12 w/delivery then I am saving much more

Generally I am installing higher wattage CFL's for more light
Bathroom light has (2) 13w CFLs vs old fixture with (1) 100w bulb
Bathroom vanity rated for 40w bulbs, I have (3) 13w (60w equiv) installed
Laundry area I installed a 2nd light bulb fixture & now run (2) 13w instead of (1) 75w or 100w
I did the same with the basement & utility room
100w bulb gives a glare, (2) 13w CFL's spread the light out better

All depedns upon where you live, cost of electric, heating method & elecrtic company kicking in for lower costs & rebates

If widespread use means not building another nuke or coal fired electric plant then I am all for it
I'm really hoping the LED prices drop
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Old 12-25-2009, 09:13 AM   #21
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Incadescent lamp phase out question


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If widespread use means not building another nuke or coal fired electric plant then I am all for it
I'm really hoping the LED prices drop
This is exactly why I ask the question, we share the same concerns. I am just more suspicious than you about the the actual overall efficiency of CFLs. A CFL has all the components of an incandescent plus a much more intricate "bulb" that has a more complicated coating on the interior not to mention the shape, electronic circuitry, a more robust packing requirement and they out weigh the replacement bulb at least 3 to 1. All of these add to the overall energy footprint of a CFL over the incandescent.

Merry Christmas

Rege

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