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Old 04-17-2008, 08:38 AM   #16
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


As a newbie diyer, one should have the common sense to know what they can and cannot do, without jeopardizing themselves and the people around them.

I would never attempt anything that I know would cause potential damage or harm in the slightest way.

We all have to recognize our limits.

Thanks to all the pros giving us their opinions and advice and we all should appreciate that.


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Old 04-17-2008, 10:11 AM   #17
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


yummy mummy - agreed 100% thanks to all the pros that make this website happen in the first place

i am a DIY homeowner. my basic philosophy is to overkill everything i do so that it will "last 50 years". if i were a pro, it probably WOULD last 50 years.. but a DIY can make mistakes or think they did something good but not. so, 50 year job is more like 15 years.. so that's ok. 15 years is acceptable. so my thought of build it to last 50 years is really meaning, build it to last at least 15 years.. but if done right should last 50 years. confused yet? ha.

also, i always have some $ in the bank so that i can call in a pro if i totally get in over my head. i'm doing this because i enjoy the DIY work and satisfaction, plus it keeps me out of trouble on the weekends.

i've had to call in the pros on a few occassions.. when my main water valve leaked. when i needed a new roof. when i needed a new furnace. when i needed an air conditioner (ok, i didn't actually need an air conditioner.. but its nice to have luxury).

on the subject of inspectors and reality.. there's a big difference between the city inspector and someone that inspects homes for people during the house purchase process. one person will demand that you rip it all out and fine your ass, while the other person will demand that the home seller fix it first (to which they respond "the house price just went up 50K, still interested?").

anyway, check out some of my projects over in the showcase area. i really appreciate your comments or constructive criticism. its really helpful also for the pros to comment on things that were done right and wrong so that DIYers that read my posts in the future can get even more useful information!

my shower project, denshield backerboard, tiled walls
my shower project, denshield backerboard, tiled walls

my toilet install, 90 year old home
my toilet install, 90 year old home

my floor refurbish project
my floor refurbish project

my kitchen reno - concrete countertops
my kitchen reno - complete remodel (with concrete countertop)

************************************************** *********

thx again to all the pros!

Last edited by Knucklez; 04-17-2008 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 04-17-2008, 02:59 PM   #18
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


whoa....Interesting post. I'm not sure what kind of "Comments? " you were looking for, but here are a couple more....

warmsmeallup nailed it. DIY board, and DIYer's get you all bound up.....Why torture yourself and participate in this forum? I hope you're able to "work out" your panty issue.

It seems from your posts that you would immediately discredit any post that was not from a contractor, true?

I think you are way off base to make such generalizations of "homeowners". There are just as many disparaging generalizations that can be made of "contractors". However, just as your generalizations are absurd, so would such generalizations of "contractors".

There are good contractors and bad, and some that are very bad. There are skilled DIY'ers and not skilled DIY'ers, and yes, there are some that probably should just step away from the tools. I think most people here would agree.

I have seen the posts where I think...ooohhh, based on that question that person should not attempt that project. But I agree with Atlantic, all you can do is advise.

oh....... and darn, I really thought I was actually fooling you into believing the 100 amp service to the detached garage wasn't for the family of 4 that will be moving in. Now that you're on to me I better put a stop to that project . I think "all us people" will be running scared now knowing we can't sneak one past you.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:42 PM   #19
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


What color are your panties? :D

Many good points, but the only side I'm on is the safe side (for now).

As for illegal living spaces in garages - yes, I've seen them. Mine is, in fact, a permitted "bonus room." I CANNOT put in a toilet like I wanted so I wouldn't have to run all the way to the other side of the house and miss good parts of the movie, and I would probably get a fine if I was caught sleeping on the couch. I think the additional panel only holds 80 amps. 100 amps would be more than ample for running a welder and the rest of my tools, and I don't see why you wouldn't have it in the garage. You could run a meth lab on way less. My cabinet making is not making me any money. I didn't know you needed a license for that too.

Aw, who cares? Just make sure to only hurt or kill yourself and no one or nothing else and make sure to not make a mess.

I appreciate all the honesty here.
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Old 04-18-2008, 01:11 AM   #20
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


When I first started replying to this forum, I was amazed at some of the responses to my educated answers. But soon figured out who to respond to and who not to. If they would ask a fairly intellegent question, I would gladly help them out; I just like helping people. If they would not take my professional advice or were obviously in over there heads, I would just leave it alone. If you enjoy giving advice to people on projects, then do so, if you don't, then don't. I have also gained some knowledge myself on this forum. I had an appliance issue that I asked a question on, and received a very helpful, and intelligent response. None of us knows everything, and most are willing to learn from others. I find this site very enjoyable, If you do not, then quit b!tching and change the channel!
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:27 AM   #21
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


Sorry I refuse to run away from a problem. That is the way of scoundrels and weak people.
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Old 04-18-2008, 04:02 PM   #22
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


I am fairly new here, and I'll be honest, it often feels like the pros get angry when they don't " hear what they want to hear" too

I thought the whole idea of this forum was pros and fellow DIYers sharing tips and know-how so that Home owners could correctly tackle jobs themself, but there seem to be at least a few people who whose standard answer is " call a pro " for pretty much everything, and others can get downright nasty at times ( don't beleive me ? reread this thread from the begining)

I appreciate most of the pros on this list, and there are some who seem super helpful and sometimes I wonder how they get anywork done during the day since they spend so much time answering our stupid questions

I feel that I've picked up a great deal of tips from answers to my questions, as well as reading posts that I was in no way involved in.

I really don't see how anyone should be making accusations like " you're just building an illegal apartment" based on a posters electrical question? and even if they are, why do you really care?

Like other ametuers on this list, I've had some bad experiences with " professional contractors" and I will sometimes inquire about jobs that i may have no business actually attempting, simply to assess the risks involved in DIY'ing it.

somebody was talking about the Home shows giving DIYers a false sense of knowledge and that may be true, but i will say that I watch the show Holmes on Homes and I think I would do a better "before" job that ANY of the so-called contractors he's cleaned up after...

Last edited by Mr Chips; 04-18-2008 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:57 AM   #23
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


I like to DIY when I can, but I definitely know my limits. I am a small female, I wouldn't rent a jack hammer and try to use it myself. I wouldn't snake a sewer line. I wouldn't do anything where if I did it wrong, it could burn down my house or kill me in the process. I can paint. I can tape drywall. I can install a toilet. I can solder a copper pipe. I can fix my pvc pipes when they leak. I can pretty much fix anything on a car (except the engine and tranny). And all of these things I've learned by coming to sites like this.

It's really my car that started me down the DIY path. I hated going to get my car fixed because often I felt like I was being taken advantage of because I had no idea what the mechanic was talking about. I like being an informed consumer and I wasn't. Now that I know a lot about cars was I taken advantage of? Most of the time, no, but a few times yes. Now, when I need to take my car to a mechanic because the problem is beyond my skill level, I can have an intelligent dialog where I know what is wrong with the car and I know exactly what is going to be done with the car. I know basically what the job should cost based on the cost of the parts and the time it should take to get the job done. And now instead of feeling ripped off I gladly pay the mechanic his fee because I know the job was difficult, the parts were expensive and the work he did was worth every penny.

If I can be an informed consumer when it comes to my car, why shouldn't I be an informed consumer when it comes to my house. It is the most important material possession I have. Sites like this have been invaluable. Because I love my house and I want the people who work on my house to know what they are doing. If I have a job that needs to be done, I can come here to find out the right way to do it. If it is simple enough, I can do it myself. If it is beyond my skill level, but within the skill set of my handyman (and I know him well enough to know his limitations too), then I will have him do it. And if it is beyond both of our skill sets, then I call an expert. When I hire someone to do the job I know the right questions to ask and based on what I learned here I can basically figure out if they know what they are doing. This has saved me many times from hiring the wrong people.

Please continue to contribute to this site. You are helping a lot of people.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:07 AM   #24
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


elbee

You and all the other appreciative DIYers make the time spent, well worth it...always remember, we were a DIYer once too! We just took it to the next step.
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Old 04-20-2008, 11:01 AM   #25
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chips View Post
....but i will say that I watch the show Holmes on Homes and I think I would do a better "before" job that ANY of the so-called contractors he's cleaned up after...
To tell you the truth, we (and other general contractors) run into poor workmanship, miss-guided property owner attempts, improperly built, wrongly-altered, incorrectly repaired, etc....items and areas on 80% of the remodel and addition jobs we do. We just don't have cameras following us around to do broadcasts all of the messes, and all the clean ups, fixes, and corrections that we do.

Example (pictures at the end of the thread): http://www.diychatroom.com/showthrea...258#post113258
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Old 04-20-2008, 11:38 AM   #26
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


I can really appreciate the comments made on this thread. I am a TV tech by profession, and I have seen so many TVs that had been at other shops where the so-called tech was a complete idiot! They should have been run out of town. I am sure that all professions are like this as well. Some great, some good, and some horrible. I would never answer a question by a poster on this DYI forum about remodeling, but I have answered quite a few in the electronics section. Their is no shame in not knowing something, but there IS shame when you pretend to know somethig, when in reality, you don't.

I have limits with my own house, and this is when I call in the pros. Unfortunately, later on, I realize that the work that the "pro" did was sub-standard in some cases. I believe the most important thing a pro can put into his or her job (besides the correct knowledge) is PRIDE. When I take the back off a television, if I see the wrong screws holding the back on, or missing screws, this is a good indication as to what I am going to find inside.

I also believe that before a question is asked, the poster should have already read about what the job intales, so the question will be an educated question. This is not always foolproof though. I wanted to do some plaster repair, so a read a lot, and watched many shows and vides on the subject. Unfortunately,, this was not good enough. Because of this site, I found that some of the old plaster can contain asbestos! I have never seen this mentioned on "this old House", or the other shows I have seen. In my books, I have never read about this fact either. Right now I have stopped in mid-stream, waiting to get the test results back on the plaster ingredients. This is thanks to this forum. It may have saved my life, or at least extended my life if its not too late. I would rather be scared of what might happen, then live my life in ingorance.

Thanks guys and gals for being here when we need you. When I post a question, I will always TRY to educate myself before the question is asked.
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Old 04-20-2008, 12:26 PM   #27
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


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Unfortunately, later on, I realize that the work that the "pro" did was sub-standard in some cases.
So true! The house we bought 4 years ago was turn key beautiful with incredible craftsmanship, but the guts of the house was crap. I know the previous owner of our house and I guarantee you he never DIY'd. I am sure he never even stepped foot in the attic where all the plumbing is. And I am sure the people he hired he thought were the best. He did a copper repipe probably 15 years ago. It turned out to be a partial copper repipe -which he probably didn't even know. The copper that they did put in is "M" rated. Well, now 15 years later we had horrible leaking in the galvanized pipes that were not torn out during the original repipe and we also had pin hole leaks in the "M" rated copper. We had to tear out all the galvanized and replace the "M" with "L". I am sure the previous owner saw the company he hired bringing copper pipes into the house and never thought anything of it. We are also having a lot of problems with our windows. Every window was handmade. They are hand distressed wood and they are beautiful. But, none of the windows have any flashing or waterproofing of any kind. The only thing keeping the water out of the walls is caulking. Why would someone put all of that time/money into hand crafting a window and not flash it properly? We now have to go through the process of rebuilding some of the windows and make sure the flashing is done properly.

I know this is a DIY site, but I think it is also a great site for pro's in that it strengthens the integrity of their profession. I wish every home owner would come here before they hired someone to do work on their house. It would insure that the people who are skilled, educated and know what they are doing are actually getting the jobs. I can't tell you how many times I have come across a post or a youtube video where a pro was explaining how to do something and I was so impressed by his/her knowledge that I would try to find out where this person is located so that I could hire them. Thus far, I have not come across someone like this in my area. I can't tell you how many times I have tried to hire someone and when I try to get a feeling on how the work is going to be done I get evasive non-answers. If someone can't even tell me how the work is going to be done, how can they even do the work? I am new to this community, but I plan on sticking around and hopefully learning a lot. I am looking forward to seeing this community grow.
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Old 04-20-2008, 06:54 PM   #28
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


I've spent most of my career (35 years) in the construction trades, the last 18 as a commercial/industrial/ large residential electrician. There are 2 main reasons I post my opinions here.

The first one is quite simply, safety. I usually post in the electrical forum, and this is one area where lack of knowledge can result in something a bit worse than a bad-looking job. For example, if you aren't careful building a deck, you end up with a lousy-looking deck. If you aren't careful with electrical, you're likely to have a fire, or worse yet, a funeral.

The second reason is because I still remember what it feels like to know next to nothing, ask what I considered to be a valid question, and be ridiculed and belittled for asking something so stupid. Electricians are probably the worst at this. I can't help but wonder how many people have real questions, but are afraid to post them for fear of the above abuse.

All questions and answers here are read by more than one person, and if the pros around here answer questions, regardless of the perceived motive, someone else who is afraid to ask might just gain enough knowledge to make their project a bit safer.

In the short time I've been here, I've come to realize that there are indeed some people who want to know if it's OK to bust code, or how to hack something in. To those of us who have been around the block a few times, this is usually pretty obvious. In a case like this, I'll give the most professional answer I can, and usually explain why I think the way I do. Even though this might not exactly answer the original question, it might help someone else do their project better.

I honestly feel that most residential work, even electrical, is within the abilities of your average DIYer. They just need a bit of advice from those of us who've been doing it for years, and more importantly, not be afraid to ask for it. Though it was many years ago, there was a time when I picked up my first tool, and went to work.

Rob
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Old 04-21-2008, 11:44 PM   #29
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


I can not help but think that this thread started because of my post asking about my mom's roof. If I am right then I do not believe that this website is a place to find any reputable advice or instruction. I would tend to agree with you that there are people out there that like to take shortcuts and do things cheap, even if the cost is quality. But, normally, homeowners are the ones who want it done right, it is the contractors who take the shortcuts to make the extra buck thinking that they are dealing with a naive homeowner who has no knowledge of what is going on. Once again, the reason I posted my original post on here looking for advice was that I needed to know how to do it CORRECTLY!!! I do not want to take any shortcuts whatsoever, but, completely tearing the top half of her house off is not the answer, even I know that.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:35 AM   #30
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I am perplexed - you people need to THINK


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I can not help but think that this thread started because of my post asking about my mom's roof. If I am right then I do not believe that this website is a place to find any reputable advice or instruction....
Ford,

Sorry, but youy are incorrect in your assumption that the original poster was targeting you.

Look at the date of the original post in this thread. It is 4/15. You posted your question about your mom's roof on 4/19.

It was a general post not necessarily directed at any one person...

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