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-   -   I am perplexed - you people need to THINK (http://www.diychatroom.com/f2/i-am-perplexed-you-people-need-think-19960/)

LawnGuyLandSparky 04-15-2008 10:26 AM

I am perplexed - you people need to THINK
 
Just an observation...

It's one thing for people to want to do it themselves. The satisfaction of a job well done, (or done well enough) or the ability to do a better or nicer job, or higher quality job due to the labor savings... or the ability to do something or have something at all only by virtue of doing it yourself making that possible... it's all fine and good. :thumbsup:

But when some of you assinine cheapo or poor homeowners want to take stupid shortcuts, bend the rules, change the laws of physics, or insist on doing something that's impossible or improbable AND want professional advice on how to do an ill-fated or ill-conceived plan AND make it work, really gets my panties in a knot. :censored:

Comments? :whistling2:

majakdragon 04-15-2008 11:19 AM

YUP, these are people who want the best of both worlds. Build cheap (and incorrectly) without permits but want to enjoy the extra money when they sell. Too bad they don't realize that a halfway desent Home Inspector can easily find the flaws. Then they complain because they are required to fix the abominations they created.

RippySkippy 04-15-2008 12:38 PM

WRT to the inspectors...let's not forget that not all (inspectors) are easy to deal with. I've had both ends of the spectrum...the most arrogant nit-pick SOB, to "if you have questions call me". I'd guess many HO are not prepared to talk confidently about their project with the inspector and let the intimidation get the best of 'em. You have to be prepared to ask and answer sometimes hard detailed questions. Don't let them bully you though...they work for you.

LawnGuyLandSparky 04-15-2008 12:39 PM

Hence the phrase "pay me now, or pay me later."

DIYtestdummy 04-15-2008 12:46 PM

Need to get ya some of those anti-knot thong panties... :laughing:


I'd love to get something for nothing, but I'd feel guilty about it. Sure, if I can save a buck or hundreds and I can DIY, I'll do it. I want to do it right, though, so I don't have to do it again. Learning is like an addiction. I do spend extra money on overkill, but it's better than a crapshoot on a guy who may not want to be working that day. I totally agree that some of the info on TV shows gives people too much confidence and they get in over their heads. These TV shows are also putting a lot of the so-called "handyman" types out of business. It's good to have boards like this with free information from people who can share REAL experience. Research can only go so far. It's up to guys like you to teach us idiots the proper way of doing things, or to hire someone else. So thank you Mr. PerplexedbunchedknottedpantywedgeGuy!



"A ONE that isn't cold is scarcely a ONE at all." -Strongbad; Cold Ones

jogr 04-15-2008 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky (Post 116516)
Just an observation...

But when some of you assinine cheapo or poor homeowners want to take stupid shortcuts, bend the rules

Honestly, I've seen this attribute more commonly in git-r-dun contractors who just want the check fast than with DIY HOs who tend to want it done right. Of course there is the occasional flipper, home seller or renter trying to cobble something together well enough to get out the door....but these aren't real home owners working for the long term improvement of their house.

HandyPete 04-15-2008 03:16 PM

Geezzzz....I'm not sure that kind of talk is going to help the DIY's on this site :no:.

I've been in the trade for over 35 years and have quite a few thoughts of my own but, I keep that kind of talk for my buddies when were drink'n brewskies!

:whistling2:

_pete

mark942 04-15-2008 03:58 PM

Mr. PerplexedbunchedknottedpantywedgeGuy!


:laughing::laughing::laughing:Now thats humorous............................:thumbsup:

Termite 04-16-2008 12:46 PM

As an inspector I'd rather deal with the homeowner over the fly-by-night know-nothing remodelers than I have occasionally encountered. Even though the homeowner may have no idea what they're doing, most of the want to do it right. The cheapo remodelers I mentioned often want to get down the road with the check in their pocket.

Nothing wrong with people wanting to do their own work and seeking help in doing it. Where some people go wrong is not knowing when they're in over their head.

Speedy Petey 04-16-2008 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite (Post 116820)
As an inspector I'd rather deal with the homeowner over the fly-by-night know-nothing remodelers than I have occasionally encountered. Even though the homeowner may have no idea what they're doing, most of the want to do it right. The cheapo remodelers I mentioned often want to get down the road with the check in their pocket.

Nothing wrong with people wanting to do their own work and seeking help in doing it. Where some people go wrong is not knowing when they're in over their head.

This is all part of what Lawn Guys is stating.
It's NOT just homeowners. It's flippers, so-called contractors, DIYers, handymen, and more, that do what he is saying in the OP.

This is especially true in the electrical forum IMO. We get all kinds looking for just the answers they want to hear. Then when they get told the harsh truth, they get all snotty and throw out all sorts of typical nasty comments.
I mean seriously. Someone will come on and say "How do I replace my main service panel?"!!! How the hell do you answer that without being honest?
When the question is posed that way there is but ONE simple answer!

I understand exactly what Lawn Guys is saying.

Yes, we all know there are hack and shyster "contractors" out there. That is NOT the point. This is a DIY forum and that is the topic.

LawnGuyLandSparky 04-16-2008 03:48 PM

Yes, Petey gets it. Sometimes the true answer is "If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand." And he's right on the money - Sometimes Homeowners DO want to hear what they want to hear.

Further, while I'm venting, let me say this...

I am not buying for a minute all these stories about people "finishing my basement" into craft rooms, home offices, (with kitchenETTES) or running 100 amp feeders and gas heat into their detached garages for "a welder and working on my cabinetmaking hobby." What a load of crap!

Most of you people are building illegal apartments - don't think you're fooling anybody. And nobody runs 100 amps to a garage for a HOBBY. Or a "overnight remote guest cottage." This is what people do who who live in the Hamptons, and they hire professionals - if you're doing this yourself, it's for an illegal cabinetmaking BUSINESS or an illegal apartment.

warmsmeallup 04-16-2008 05:21 PM

I really don't want to take sides BUT :wink: ...isn't it just like watching something on TV that you don't like...and continuing to watch it?!

This is a DIY forum. Yes, people are here to find out if they can do it themselves and will try to do it themselves, whether they get in over their heads or not. That's what we're here for. It's not your personal phone number that requires YOU to answer all questions asked. Life's too short to get all *knotted up* about it.

Silk 04-16-2008 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky (Post 116851)
And nobody runs 100 amps to a garage for a HOBBY. Or a "overnight remote guest cottage." This is what people do who who live in the Hamptons, and they hire professionals - if you're doing this yourself, it's for an illegal cabinetmaking BUSINESS or an illegal apartment.

I would say damn near all the new garages that have gone up around my area in the last 10 years or longer have have 100 amp panels installed. It's not that people need it, it's that everybody "thinks" they need it. Just like everybody with a 1200 square foot house with gas heat thinks they need a 200 amp panel. I blame the realtors who use it as a selling point.

And I'm not in the Hamptons. I'm in a rural area with only 12,000 people in the whole county.

Speedy Petey 04-16-2008 08:31 PM

Lawn Guy, I am with Silk on this part.
I will also say, on LI there is almost no such thing as a legal apartment in a home/house. Illegal apartments are rampant on the Island.

Off LI, there are TONS of "apartments" in basements, additions, attics, two-families, etc. Pretty much all being legal. I realized this very quickly once I moved off the Island.

AtlanticWBConst. 04-16-2008 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey (Post 116827)
This is all part of what Lawn Guys is stating.
It's NOT just homeowners. It's flippers, so-called contractors, DIYers, handymen, and more, that do what he is saying in the OP.

This is especially true in the electrical forum IMO. We get all kinds looking for just the answers they want to hear. Then when they get told the harsh truth, they get all snotty and throw out all sorts of typical nasty comments.
I mean seriously. Someone will come on and say "How do I replace my main service panel?"!!! How the hell do you answer that without being honest?
When the question is posed that way there is but ONE simple answer!

Speedy,

First off...thank you for all the helpful information and answers that you post on the site.

Secondly,....yes, there are some things that are DIY projects, and MANY things that are not. I never cease to be amazed, at the some of the "projects' that a small minority attempt, that are in the spectrum of (not just "Professional-Knowledge-Territory")...but are: "Serious-Experienced-Professional" territory.

When these few are told to call-in an "experienced professional", they sometimes "balk"...or get offended....

To each his/her own....

As licensed professionals, all you can do is advise...whether they choose to listen....is entirely up to them...

The reality is this:
There are projects that intimidate the pros (the guys/gals that do it fulltime)....and even they will choose, at times, to call in the specialized and experienced professionals (Those that specialize in a particular "area" -24/7)...if the professionals have the sense to do it, why can't those, not in the field, consent to that as a viable option?


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