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Old 03-20-2012, 07:01 PM   #16
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


If you put cars in the yard, you'll probably owe personal property taxes on them.

The indirect, long term way to reduce confiscatory taxation is to support, campaign, and vote for candidates who don't offer free everything to everyone because what they're giving away is your wealth. Just a thought.

Is the property remote where people can't see it or near a road/settlement/town where some busybody will take offense at improvements that don't meet their tastes? It will affect whether improvements can be exterior or have to be kept internal. Consider sacrificial materials. Vinyl siding gives way to stone P.A. (post assessment) Laminate counters (used?).

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Old 03-20-2012, 07:29 PM   #17
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


Well, here's a minimalistic bathroom.

A kitchen idea. The modern gas range rasied the annul tax another $100. though.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:18 PM   #18
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


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The indirect, long term way to reduce confiscatory taxation is to support, campaign, and vote for candidates who don't offer free everything to everyone because what they're giving away is your wealth. Just a thought.
And a good thought at that for I'm already doing this. The problem is that I can't recall any politician who has actually been successful at implementing rollbacks. Big government is a disease. Government gets captured by interested parties who put a lot of effort into getting what they want from the government and these small special interest groups have more vigor than beleaguered taxpayers who don't rise up to fight the nickel and dime proposals, but those nickel and dime proposals add up to a lot when all the groups' special projects are added up.

Look, I was prepared to go along with the flow and do a complete disclosure on the building plans but then the straw broke my back. Being taxed at a higher rate forevermore because I'm taking stones out of my ground and cladding my own home with them tells me that there is no honor in following the rules.

I'm not intending to skimp on safety or structure and I'll document all of my build with photos now that digital photo storage is damn near free compared to film. If I need to have the house meet code 10 years in the future, I'll have all details of construction that is behind the walls available through the photos.

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Consider sacrificial materials. Vinyl siding gives way to stone P.A. (post assessment) Laminate counters (used?).
In my area I've been told that the assessment for tax process usually rolls around every 4-5 years, meaning that they don't just apply a formula but actually try to verify improvements. Secondly, they have a policy of not forcing their way onto property if the owner objects - they'll just assess what they see from the road, or air, or orbit, or from the neighbor's yard when the neighbor is OK with them being on his property. This means that any outside improvements get recorded. Thirdly, I was told by the building inspector that a house with siding that transitions to brick/stone requires a permit because the method of construction for stone cladding involves features that aren't applicable to vinyl siding and they need to insure that things are done properly.

I'm just going to have to suck up the added costs for going with stonework but I'll save on other fronts.

Your point about sacrificial material is pretty good. I'll buy a shower stall, install it, no bathtub, and then remove it and place it in the basement bathroom and put in "the good stuff" in the upstairs bath.

Tinner666,

That kitchen is exactly what I intend to do, minus the gas camp stove. I'll have real appliances, but all the counters will be minimalist. I wonder how that'll go over with the building permit department? What are they going to say - "we don't approve of your interior design choices so we're going to deny you the permit"
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:32 PM   #19
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


If you are in an area that requires permits, you'd be surprised at what they may require to be a legal habitable space. Around here you must have a counter top for preparing food in order to become a "habitable space". Anywhere north of my local area, there is hardly any codes at all, or enforcement.

The closer you are to suburban type living, there will be more codes, enforcement, and TAXES.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:46 PM   #20
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


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If you are in an area that requires permits, you'd be surprised at what they may require to be a legal habitable space. Around here you must have a counter top for preparing food in order to become a "habitable space". Anywhere north of my local area, there is hardly any codes at all, or enforcement.

The closer you are to suburban type living, there will be more codes, enforcement, and TAXES.
Good point. I suppose that the best way to fight them is to know the regs inside and out and then thread the needle very carefully.

Inspector: "you need a countertop."
Me: "This card table (like in the photo that Tinner666 posted) meets the conditions of a countertop for it has a surface area greater than x sf, it is made of a material that is food safe, etc. according to section XXX of the building code."

The problem with this approach is if I get a "petty tyrant" as the building inspector and will use his authority outside of the law in order to hinder my build even if he knows he doesn't have grounds because the point is to delay and cause inconvenience in order to prove that he's the "boss."
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:14 PM   #21
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


as you all know, our government is praying on us. for their own enrichment.
i am also looking for non taxable improvements.
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:01 AM   #22
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


I know this doesn't apply to you at this time, but as a reference, my house was built in the 1930's and there is no records on file for it.

Only one map even showed a driveway on it, but no house.

This is how I was able to do the work I did.

Before buying a house, I'd look at older ones.

I'm kinda surprised other states didn't follow the path of California. We passed Prop 13 in the 70's and it's still holding up.

We've got to draw the line somewhere, or they'll just tax us into broke!
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:55 AM   #23
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


No advise for you, just wanted to mention how awesome this is!
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:40 AM   #24
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


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as you all know, our government is praying on us. for their own enrichment.
i am also looking for non taxable improvements.
Move away from wonderland and out into the sticks. The more the gvmnt supplies for us (roads, snow plowing, side walks, police protection, fire etc..) the more they tax us. Some people think of those as necessities and others could care less.


The fact that everyone here is within range for the internet means that you are no where close to being where you can actually do what you want. This is a good thing though, IMO....because there are too many that 'think' they know it all, but actually know very little and could put themselves in danger. Just because they sell something at menards does not mean it is safe to put inside of a living space.

For example, most of the cheap wiring that is at the big box stores does not meet the specs for our state code. They continue to sell it because 99% of homeowners who do any electrical work don't get a permit. Could this pose a problem?? Why not??? I've witnessed plenty of stupid things that people have done, haven't you?
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:48 AM   #25
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Two-Hatchet View Post
Good point. I suppose that the best way to fight them is to know the regs inside and out and then thread the needle very carefully.

Inspector: "you need a countertop."
Me: "This card table (like in the photo that Tinner666 posted) meets the conditions of a countertop for it has a surface area greater than x sf, it is made of a material that is food safe, etc. according to section XXX of the building code."

The problem with this approach is if I get a "petty tyrant" as the building inspector and will use his authority outside of the law in order to hinder my build even if he knows he doesn't have grounds because the point is to delay and cause inconvenience in order to prove that he's the "boss."

It really doesn't matter what the mood of the inspector is, if you are within guidelines. They can only enforce what the code book says and they do it to release any liability.

BTW, I believe the code here for a food preparation area has some wording which includes "impermeable". I'm sure a paring knife would slice that card table top rather easily.
Next thing you know, you wind up on the ground outside and no neighbors to find you.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:24 PM   #26
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


Maybe look into a pre-fabbed modular home? Set it up with only 2 units initially(living/sleeping area and a bath room), but add on when appropriate. It might be less expensive on taxes and such that way. Not sure, but if you are looking for options it might be worth checking into.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:33 PM   #27
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


Don't build a basement. It will just be considered a shed or garage at that point. That might lower the value. Also see if you can find the legal description of a wall. Is it a non movable structure that goes from floor to ceiling, or some other wording? Instead of building walls, use shelves or cubicle walls. If it has to touch the ceiling to be a wall, then leave a 1 foot gap. You can put trophys there.

Use a septic system instead of city sewage, that might lower the value as well.

It really does suck though how cities will actually dictate what you can and cannot do on your own property, and tax you based on the way it's built. I always found this to be pure BS. You should be taxed on the property, not the structure that you build yourself.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:23 AM   #28
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


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Don't build a basement. It will just be considered a shed or garage at that point. That might lower the value.
IIRC the height limit for a crawl space in my area is something like 6', which is below the height allowed for liveable rooms and so the crawl space is not taxed at all, either in permitting or in property taxes. However, a 6' ceiling height still gives one usable space. I need to give this some thought. I suppose I could have 8' basement walls and pour the crawlspace slab high enough up the walls so that the resulting room space has a height limit of 6'. Again, like the old cars in the yard gambit, this would reduce my permit fees and taxes but is it worth the headache of jackhammering out the slab, hauling away 2' of fill and then pouring a new slab? I doubt it, but then again I should probably double check on what the fees and taxes for a basement would be over the time that I expect to live in this house. Or maybe the easiest route is to simply see if I can live with a 6' high crawlspace and leave it at that.

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Also see if you can find the legal description of a wall. Is it a non movable structure that goes from floor to ceiling, or some other wording? Instead of building walls, use shelves or cubicle walls. If it has to touch the ceiling to be a wall, then leave a 1 foot gap. You can put trophys there.
I guess I need to talk to an assessor again. If I built bathrooms without walls that would surely put the house into a category with NO COMPARABLES and I would think that it would depress the market price severely. Who wants to use the facilities in full view of everyone else in the house?

This means though that the house has to be designed with no load bearing internal walls. Again, the trade-offs have to be calculated.

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It really does suck though how cities will actually dictate what you can and cannot do on your own property, and tax you based on the way it's built. I always found this to be pure BS. You should be taxed on the property, not the structure that you build yourself.
No kidding. Like someone who is putting granite countertops into their kitchen instead of formica now has to pay more in property taxes every year thereafter. Why? Does it cost more to educate this person's children in school, does this person use the police, fire department and roads more than someone who used formica? You improve your property and your "reward" is the privilege of paying more in taxes for every year thereafter. At least with income taxes and sales taxes you only have to pay once. The improvement you make to your home are taxed every single year. This actually creates a disincentive to improve your home.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:00 AM   #29
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


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IIRC the height limit for a crawl space in my area is something like 6', which is below the height allowed for liveable rooms and so the crawl space is not taxed at all, either in permitting or in property taxes. However, a 6' ceiling height still gives one usable space. I need to give this some thought. I suppose I could have 8' basement walls and pour the crawlspace slab high enough up the walls so that the resulting room space has a height limit of 6'. Again, like the old cars in the yard gambit, this would reduce my permit fees and taxes but is it worth the headache of jackhammering out the slab, hauling away 2' of fill and then pouring a new slab? I doubt it, but then again I should probably double check on what the fees and taxes for a basement would be over the time that I expect to live in this house. Or maybe the easiest route is to simply see if I can live with a 6' high crawlspace and leave it at that.

I guess I need to talk to an assessor again. If I built bathrooms without walls that would surely put the house into a category with NO COMPARABLES and I would think that it would depress the market price severely. Who wants to use the facilities in full view of everyone else in the house?

This means though that the house has to be designed with no load bearing internal walls. Again, the trade-offs have to be calculated.

No kidding. Like someone who is putting granite countertops into their kitchen instead of formica now has to pay more in property taxes every year thereafter. Why? Does it cost more to educate this person's children in school, does this person use the police, fire department and roads more than someone who used formica? You improve your property and your "reward" is the privilege of paying more in taxes for every year thereafter. At least with income taxes and sales taxes you only have to pay once. The improvement you make to your home are taxed every single year. This actually creates a disincentive to improve your home.


I take it you are not part of the occupy movement.... If not already here, welcome to the Republican party.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:31 AM   #30
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How can I purposely lower the value of a new construction build?


You could pour the slab really thin. It will break up easier.
Do you really need a slab in a crawl space. Plastic sheets maybe enough.

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