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Old 10-31-2010, 03:39 PM   #1
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


Well, leaving for work the other day I noticed the dew on the roof had evaporated in one spot faster than the rest of the roof and I found that funny.

Luckily it was fairly easy to investigate since the spot on the roof directly corresponds to the crawlspace behind the wall in our guestroom.

As you can see the insulation there is kind of a mess.... hence... I'm here asking for advice.

What do you think? Tear out & start over? Or try to fix this mess?
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How to attack this... (insulation related)-insul_1.jpg   How to attack this... (insulation related)-insul_2.jpg   How to attack this... (insulation related)-insul_3.jpg  


Last edited by CoconutPete; 10-31-2010 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 10-31-2010, 04:19 PM   #2
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


The insulation should be on the door wall, under the plywood behind the door and the ceiling. There should be no insulation in the roof rafters behind the door.
Check out the Owens Corning site for a visual of the proper installation on the second floor.
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:19 PM   #3
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


Use rigid insulation board or a house wrap on the attic side of the knee wall and insulate the attic access door, as mentioned already: http://www.simplesavings.coop/simple...ee%20walls.pdf

Gary
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:51 AM   #4
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


Interesting. Was it done differently back in the day? The knee wall right now has absolutely zero insulation on it, but the roof rafters is where it was all insulated. It's a cape cod from 1930.

I guess a side question becomes: Tear out the old insulation in the picture?
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:25 AM   #5
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


My roof rafters are insulated w/R25
My knee walls are insulated w/R13 to R19
My preference is to insulate both
My storage area stays warmer then outside
Since there is living area below the storage area it makes sense
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:32 AM   #6
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
My roof rafters are insulated w/R25
My knee walls are insulated w/R13 to R19
My preference is to insulate both
My storage area stays warmer then outside
Since there is living area below the storage area it makes sense
Which one do you like better:

A: Try to "mend" the insulation that is in the rafters and then insulate the knee wall.

B: Tear out the insulation in the rafters and start fresh both there and in the knee wall.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:42 AM   #7
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


That depends upon the rafter size & existing insulation
Also if the soffit/ridge are vented & you have rafter vents installed

R25 was installed by a prior owner in my rafters
Does not make sense to me to rip mine out to go to R30

But if you have R13 & can fit R30 that would be much better
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:30 AM   #8
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


I'll inspect it more thoroughly tonight.

Only the first 5 feet have come apart, it doesn't appear those particular soffits are vented but we'll see.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:08 AM   #9
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


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Originally Posted by Ron6519 View Post
The insulation should be on the door wall, under the plywood behind the door and the ceiling. There should be no insulation in the roof rafters behind the door.
Check out the Owens Corning site for a visual of the proper installation on the second floor.
Ron
Why would you not insulate the rafters? This is a storage area. If it were an open attic I would agree, but it is not. Insulating this area would not cause the dew on the roof to evaporate more quickly, it would be the opposite.

1) Make sure the proper ventilation has been maintained
2) Repair the insulation as needed. The purpose of the paper on the insulation is a vapor barrier so you can use the existing insulation in place just use insulation or vapor barrier tape. If you can get to all of the seams, you should tape them as well. Most areas in the
3) Insulating any interior knee walls with R13 or R15. R19 in 2x4 walls compresses and only give you an R13 value.


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Old 11-01-2010, 05:27 PM   #10
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


"Was it done differently back in the day? The knee wall right now has absolutely zero insulation on it, but the roof rafters is where it was all insulated." ------ No, it's the same. Look again at the site I used, notice the top circled picture- just like you are describing. No floor insulation, no wall insulation, just in rafters. It all depends on where you want the thermal envelope: http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/he...95/950309.html

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Old 11-01-2010, 09:55 PM   #11
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


Gary: That's a good site, I'm going to read that tomorrow. For some reason I completely missed your first post when I was reading the thread on my phone earlier.

For now, just a couple of pics. The inside wall is made from 2x4's.

The rafters measure 5.5" which I finally have figured out means 2x6 in the United States

It's a mess in there, I think cleanup will be step 1 - I never realized how BIG that space is. Seems it would make a wonderful storage alternative to the detached garage attic.
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Old 11-03-2010, 07:40 AM   #12
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


Well it seems insulating the kneewall might not be the best in this scenario. In 2 different locations, ductwork pops up from the basement on the left side of the last picture I posted and runs across the kneewall floor, through the wall into the bedrooms. If I move the boundary to the kneewall, teh ducts are going to be in a cold zone.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:12 AM   #13
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


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Originally Posted by CoconutPete View Post
Well it seems insulating the kneewall might not be the best in this scenario. In 2 different locations, ductwork pops up from the basement on the left side of the last picture I posted and runs across the kneewall floor, through the wall into the bedrooms. If I move the boundary to the kneewall, teh ducts are going to be in a cold zone.
The ducts should be insulated. If they're behind the knee wall they're in a cold zone already. There is nothing you can do behind the knee wall, insulation wise, that will compensate for uninsulated ductwork.
These are 2 separate but related issues.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:16 AM   #14
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


"The ducts should be insulated. If they're behind the knee wall they're in a cold zone already. There is nothing you can do behind the knee wall, insulation wise, that will compensate for uninsulated ductwork.
These are 2 separate but related issues."

I think Ron hit the nail on the head, so to speak. I've done a lot of insulation work and the ducts should be insulated, and as far as the knee wall is concerned, you're SOL my friend.

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Old 11-03-2010, 09:31 AM   #15
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How to attack this... (insulation related)


If the rafters are insulated (what's left of it anyway) and there's living space beneath the side attic, then how is it considered a "cold zone"?

If the kneewall was insulated and the rafters were not then yes I could understand that, but with no insulation in the kneewall and the rafters insulated wouldn't that move the barrier past the kneewall?

By the way, the ducts are insulated, you can see them in the bottom of the pic - looks like asbestos (fun).


Last edited by CoconutPete; 11-03-2010 at 09:33 AM.
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