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Old 02-21-2008, 07:08 AM   #16
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Come one, We go up against them all the time way way way overpriced for what you are getting. No one likes the pellas we have done, bulky, wierd wood grains, grills that rattle.

I'm not defending Andersen either, I think they are junk too.

If you want a wood window, Hire an independent contractor to install Marvin, Eagle, etc. You will likely pay less, and have a much better window.

I cant blame the installers for being hacks, not many decent guys want to put up with all the BS from the pella stores.

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Old 02-21-2008, 07:10 AM   #17
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I'm on my way out of the office Atlantic, I will give this some thought, and post something tonight. I cannot make one list, I will have to break it down between vinyl and wood, and cladding materials.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:11 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by PKHI View Post
Come one, We go up against them all the time way way way overpriced for what you are getting. No one likes the pellas we have done, bulky, wierd wood grains, grills that rattle.

I'm not defending Andersen either, I think they are junk too.

If you want a wood window, Hire an independent contractor to install Marvin, Eagle, etc. You will likely pay less, and have a much better window.

I cant blame the installers for being hacks, not many decent guys want to put up with all the BS from the pella stores.
That's it, that's all you got?!

Come on, I'd like to hear some more detailed information, specific points, etc.
I'm serious, I'd like to hear what you've got to say as a window and siding guy...Maybe some technical things.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:12 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by rjordan392 View Post
Hello,
I been searching the net to no avail for information on what is legal and not legal in a home improvement contract in the state of Pennsylvania. Does anyone have knowledge of a site for this? My state's consumer protection was of no help.
PA does seem to want to keep this information secret
I've had no luck at the usual suspects for this information
I'll keep an eye out though
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One of the things of interest to me is there a limit on a deposit that a contractor can legally ask for? I have seen recommendations of no more then 30% of the total costs of the job.
In the state I'm in now, it is limited to a 10% deposit
However, it is not illegal to ask for another 30%+ to begin work
"Begin work" can mean purchase materials, as that is work

On a job with a large material purchase, I wouldn't begin work w/o at least 30% up front

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Some contracts are written to say that the homeowner cannot interfere with the workers. I did not like that at all but signed anyway because I thought I was hiring a contractor that uses skilled workers. I had to file a complaint on 3 of the four workers.
This, is a particularly good idea
I realize you are looking at it from the POV of a homeowner wanting to make sure the job is done correctly, but there are other issues
Aside from the obvious...and not so obvious, safety and contract issues, there is the fact that the workmen do not work for the homeowner
Any and all concerns should be brought to the attention of the job foreman, or owner, or the proper office personnel as directed by the contract, contractor, contractor rep, or by whatever policy the company uses

The homeowner does not sign the worker's check, and usually workers are given specific instructions NOT to take instructions from the H/O
You can't blame them...they do what the boss tells them

This is for a number of different reasons, one of which is
The specifics of the job are (should be) written into the contract
-or could be written up as standard practices
The job is bid and warrantied expecting certain steps to be taken
Adding or subtracting could affect time/price/quality, and warranty
On both the contractor and homeowner's "sides"

For example, there are homeowners that will, if allowed, tack on or allow the workers to skip procedures that have a detrimental affect on the quality of work, or add nothing but time and materials to the job with no benefit whatsoever...sometimes that have nothing to do with the contracted work whatsoever
Sometimes (often) they will even try and tack on entire small projects "as long as you are here"
Sometimes they will instruct the workers that it's "OK to skip that" when the warranty is based on the actual completion of the step

I realize your concern is that the quality of the workmanship is not up to snuff, but that should be taken up through the proper channels and not with the workers
The line is not there to protect shoddy contractors from H/O interference (though I concede that it happens), it there to protect the contractor from un-paid for add-ons, and to protect the homeowner in a safety, quality of the work, and in warranty situations

I do not allow my workers to take instructions on how to complete their work, or what work is to be completed when, from homeowners
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:28 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by PKHI View Post
I'm on my way out of the office Atlantic, I will give this some thought, and post something tonight. I cannot make one list, I will have to break it down between vinyl and wood, and cladding materials.
OK, thanks.
When you post, could you start a new thread, so that we don't continue to "hijack" (my fault) this one?
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:09 AM   #21
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i use a form that says my work stops at the first non payment an the customer pay all legal exepence drawn up by my lawyer i have won in 5 cases in 26 years customer pays all loss wages also
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:36 AM   #22
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i carry a book with all kinds of refernes that is the most important part of any job most people do not realize how much it cost to be a contractor we bid on jobs we use hours in bidding who pays for that some people get 5to 10 bids to save money which cost us to spend less time with our family witch causes divorses plus cost us wear and gass who paYS FOR THAT USE GOOD CONTRACTORS FOR BIDS t h ank you banks do not always tell you that a check is good from 26yrs of being in buisness as a contractor people can cancel a check whitch has no police involement but legal action from the contractor abad check can bring the police a cancel brings a lawyer
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:45 AM   #23
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hmmm at least you can rest assured that you way over payed for a medium grade product.
Pella has a quality product. What you have to look out for is these mom & Pop operations that are local and not national. Most of them won't even display their products at the Home Improvement Shows because their products don't compete in quality construction and one can easily see it. They would be embarrassed to put theirs next to a quality product. I am not sure but I believe Home Depot sells Anderson and Lowe's sells Pella. Each store has a choice from a low to high end product from the manufacturers. You get what you pay for. In order for me to get triple pane windows, I had to order them through a Pella window store as the big box stores do not sell these in my area. As for paying too much; thats hard to say but I paid $600.00 a piece for some double hung designer series triple pane replacement windows (38" by 45" long) and I think the commission on each window was between $150.00 to $200.00. I installed these myself and let their installers do the bay and front door. The big box store price for a double pane designer series was $200.00 less. But I am satisfied I went with triple pane because it has made a differance in my heating and cooling costs.
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:00 AM   #24
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any one can write who cares who is a leader or follower just one life to live work together thanks

Last edited by lwoodring; 02-22-2008 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:01 AM   #25
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think

Last edited by lwoodring; 02-22-2008 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:04 AM   #26
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any one can write a check and cacel it thats legal but a bad check is a crime so asmart customer will give a good check then a cancelled check when they dont have the money then cry at the courts for mercy after 26 years of doing buisines the banks may say the check is good but later you find out its bad thats why there is so many fly by night people this is very hard on a marriage us small good contractors have no protection i would never tell some one to go in to it after 26 yrs of it tv shows make it look easly what a joke it is
Just wait for the check to clear. That solves it. If anything happens, then its the banks and the customers problem.
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:10 AM   #27
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as ahandy man for 26 yrs i have replaced widow replace ments with window re placements i thougth they were life warenty ilove it i get work I cant type but Ican save money Iam trying

Last edited by lwoodring; 02-22-2008 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:41 AM   #28
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my bank has let me know in 3 days to clear some checks being I do small jobs that last about 3to 4days it a gamble thank goodness I put money back and could you image a customer that is good .you telling them you will be back in 3 days all we as contrators can do is trust our gut feeling and budget our money Iput myself on a salary and all the rest goes into the bank Live like your an employee give your self a boness at the end of the year never charge customer supplies l

Last edited by lwoodring; 02-22-2008 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:03 PM   #29
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my bank has let me know in 3 days to clear some checks being i do small jobs that last about 3to 4days it a gamble thank goodness iput moey back and could you image acustomer that is good you telling themyouwillbe back in 3days ttrust is all we as contrators can do
With language skills like that, I would trust you with my life savings
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:08 PM   #30
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With language skills like that, I would trust you with my life savings
It is hard thinking and typing at the same time.

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