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Old 06-14-2009, 01:49 AM   #1
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Garage storage, attaching to engineered beams


This is my first post, I知 researching a project I知 doing and found the forum and it seems like a good place to get some answers. I知 making some storage area in my garage (a forum search reveals this to be a common topic) and I have some specific questions I need answers for.


First a quick over view of my design: I want to put up a shelf 2 feet deep running along most of the back wall of my garage and along one of the side walls. The wall edge of the shelf will be supported with a ledger board screwed into the wall studs and the opposite edge will be suspended from the ceiling/floor (there is a bonus room above the garage) joists with ス inch black pipe attached with pipe flanges. I am attaching a picture that should illustrate the basic idea.





Does this design seem like it will work to hold about a 100 pound every few feet (that痴 just a guess, I値l be putting a bunch of totes up there and don稚 think the load will actually be that high but to be on the safe side)?

While putting together my supply list I was trying to decide what length of screw to use to attach the flanges to the ceiling and was going to go with #14 - 3 to be on the safe side but then remembered that the house was built using engineered wood I-beams. That brings up two questions, are the beam flanges thick enough to provide enough purchase to properly attach the pipe flange to carry the load and is it even safe to screw into the flange? What I致e read about the beams states that the flanges should not get cut or notched but I know the sheetrock is screwed to the flange and the brackets supporting the garage door track and opener look like they are lag bolted into the ceiling as well. Should I use a 2 screw (5/8 sheet rock + 1 シ beam flange + シ pipe flange) since anything loner would just be in the air?

Last question (sorry, long post), the beams in the garage (20 feet wide x 40 feet deep) run from side to side, 12 inches on center, so the pipes suspending the shelf on the side of the garage would each be attached to a different beam. The pipes hanging the shelf along the back wall would all be attached to the same beam so would attaching the pipe flanges to a length of 2x4 perpendicular to and spanning a couple of beams distribute the load better, does it work that way?

Thanks in advance for any answers anyone can give.

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Old 06-15-2009, 02:23 PM   #2
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Garage storage, attaching to engineered beams


Great idea I am looking to do the same let me know how it works for you. Send some pics.

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Old 06-15-2009, 06:25 PM   #3
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Garage storage, attaching to engineered beams


Generally the I's are rated for a normal floor load, not additional storage load. Not to say they could not handle it. Call the manufacturer, ask about length of screw into the tension chord.

To put any screw longer than a drywall one would be weakening the joist, in my opinion. Screws going up into something have a lot less holding shear than side into.

How about knee braces instead? Be safe, G
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:46 PM   #4
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Garage storage, attaching to engineered beams


Are the garage walls sheetrocked?
If not you could use support wood going the outside edge of the shelf to the wall stud - near the ceiling

This would place a load against the wall stud - pulling in
That should be countered by the I-beam above?
That's if support braces underneath will not work
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:10 PM   #5
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Garage storage, attaching to engineered beams


looks nice but for 50 sq ft of storage you might want to look for alternatives
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:43 AM   #6
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Garage storage, attaching to engineered beams


Quote:
Originally Posted by GBAR in WA View Post
Generally the I's are rated for a normal floor load, not additional storage load. Not to say they could not handle it. Call the manufacturer, ask about length of screw into the tension chord.

To put any screw longer than a drywall one would be weakening the joist, in my opinion. Screws going up into something have a lot less holding shear than side into.

How about knee braces instead? Be safe, G
I'm not sure who the manufacturer is but I might be able to track it down, giving them a call would be a good idea. Even contacting any manufacturer would probably be helpful. A knee brace might be an alternative consideration but I'd like to keep it as clear as possible under the shelf (aesthetic reasons only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Are the garage walls sheetrocked?
If not you could use support wood going the outside edge of the shelf to the wall stud - near the ceiling

This would place a load against the wall stud - pulling in
That should be countered by the I-beam above?
That's if support braces underneath will not work
Yes, the walls and cieling are sheetrocked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwa View Post
looks nice but for 50 sq ft of storage you might want to look for alternatives
There would be 64 sq ft of stoage, the picture just shows enough to give a basic idea of the configuration. I'll be splitting two sheet of plywood lengthwise and running 16 feet along each wall with the side wall offset two feet by the shelf on the back wall. What is it about the amount of storage that prompts you to suggest I look for alternatives, what alternatives would you suggest?

I came up with my plan after seeing products like the ones from these companies: onrax.com, monsterrax.com, saferacks.com, hyloft.com. My design yields considerably more storage area for much less cost. I won't get the nice finish but it will be fine for my garage. I will call one of these companies tomorrow and ask about how they would deal with the engineered beams since they would be facing the same issue. I wonder how many of these comercial systems have been installed in this situation without any thought. The only reason I know about the beams in my house are because I saw it during framing...

I've modified the origial design, adding 2x4 to distribute the load better. I will use two screws at each point the strips cross a joist (no longer than the thickness of the 2x + sheetrock + beam flange to minimize penetration into the beam web) to attach the 2x4 to the cieling and four more screws will hold each pipe flange to the 2x4 only.



Does this seem like it would be better? Don't forget that unlike the other comercial products, only half the load in my design is on the joists beacause the back of the shelf is supported by the ledger boards on the wall.

Last edited by jdcook72; 06-16-2009 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:01 PM   #7
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Garage storage, attaching to engineered beams


To follow up for those that have been reading/posting on this thread… I went through my records and reviewed the trades/subcontractors list. I was able to contact the framing lumber supplier and he gave me some very specific and helpful information. He clearly remembered the project and told me the specific materials used were BCI trusses with 11 7/8 x 3/8" web, the flanges are 2 5/16” wide and 1 1/2” thick. There is no problem whatsoever screwing into the truss with a #14-3” screw. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should something like a circular saw be used where it could possibly cut across the face of the flange though. This will not be an issue for me and there is no problem with my plan. I’m still going to use the spanners I added in the revision just so the load will be better distributed and the pipe flanges will be able to be attached with four screws. My garage is FULL of stuff (hence the need for storage space) but I will try to take some pictures as things move along if anyone is interested.

Thanks to GBAR for suggesting I contact the manufacturer.


Last edited by jdcook72; 06-17-2009 at 12:07 AM.
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