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First Time Dealing With A Contractor

3K views 25 replies 18 participants last post by  chrisBC 
#1 ·
Can you all please give me some insight here.

My father in law has a flat roof on his 22x22 garage and he has been talking about adding a pitch to it to help with pooling water. Typically I would help him out but a project such as this would require more free time than I have. So he called up a friend of his that is a contractor and has worked with in the past. Now personally I have worked for an engineer for 7 years, went to school for engineering, working on becoming licensed, and know the construction process and how how it all works.. So he came out to meet with us, and I told him what I did for a living and he asked me if I wanted to engineer a design, and I didnt think it would be necessary for such a small job. He then said he would come up with a quote and design and email it over to my father in law for review, who then responded saying he wanted me to look at it.

I looked at the design and it didnt make since to me, so I wrote back and asked why he is doing what he is doing, also his quote was $13,500 not including taxes or permits so I asked if he could simply break it down more to get an idea on what the materials cost is vs the labor cost (thats it, nothing more nothing less, and I was very professional about the whole thing)

He responded saying he asked me up front if I wanted to be involved with the design and I turned down the offer, so I have no reason to involve myself now, he has been doing construction for 40 years and knows what he is doing therefore I have no reason to question his ideas. As for the price he told me I am inexperienced and have no general construction knowledge or knows what it takes to run a business so I have no reason to scrutinize his quote and he does not feel obligated to break it down any further. Then went onto saying he was called in to design and manage the project not me, so until it is said that I am managing the project, not him, nothing else needs to be said.

Did I break some forbidden rule when it comes to quotes? Is it wrong try to understand a builder on their design or to asked to be filled in on how they got their numbers for the quote? I have never worked from this standpoint with a contractor before it is always them coming to me for a job, not the other way around..
 
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#2 ·
Not sure about from the design side, but if you told him what you wanted done, and he gave you a price, that;s all he really needs to supply. You should both agree on the scope of work involved, that all the work will pass inspection, and the standard of quality. I don;t think the contractor needs to give you a break down. He probably should have been a little more polite, but you'll get that with contractors.
 
#3 ·
First time

Listen i will tell you this i am not a handy person and have been dealing with contractors a long time with many different jobs in m y home including bathrooms,roofs, sheetrock, pavers kithchens etc...the best advise i can give you is...get as many estimates as you can some people say three i say at least 5 or more...keep your mouth shut and listen you will learn...by the 6th estimate you know more then them...and you make them listen to what you want...good luck....
 
#4 ·
You obviously can't work with this guy, so no point in going into that. Try someone else.

But..... when was the last time you bought a pair of shoes, a gallon of milk, or even a car, and asked how much the cobbler got, how much the leather cost him... how much feed was spent on the cow, what the farmer got per gallon, how much the processor or the trucker got, or the store... or what percentage of the car's price was material versus manpower, or even profit?

You name a job to be done... you hold them to that contracted statement, and you pick the price you want to pay among the contractors you polled. Period.

You are wasting his time for him to break anything down for you....... AND he knows you are just shopping price.
 
#7 · (Edited)
An auto repair shop quote gives you a break down on labor and materials, so why is it wrong to ask the same to a person is repairing your garage roof?

I am not trying to argue its right or wrong, just trying to figure out why is it wrong to ask??

I was not asking for a HUGE massive breakdown, just a simple, its going to be $6500 in materials and $7000 in labor would of made me more than happy.. (just throwing out random numbers)
 
#15 · (Edited)
The operative term to describe this person is "contractor".
Any other term (like roofing or electrical or plumbing etc) is secondary.

This should serve to put you on notice that the contract, the terms, conditions, specifications, requirements and all the other legal ramifications involved must be understood by you at least as well as the person writing that contract. This is very rarely the case.

And depending on the size of the job the 'contractor" may be a "prime" or general" or a "sub". All of which can have differing meanings depending on context (scope), local or state law and licensing.

Then you get into the other services involved with a project beyond the actual on site demo and build and install and clean up work. Things like the design and especially if it is in any way out of the ordinary really should be handled separately.

W/R/T the diy'er or homeowner... the onus is on YOU to know all these things in advance or to engage the due diligence needed to learn them because if/when something goes wrong the responsibility is YOUR's.
 
#16 ·
I would think the reason that his response to you seemed rude is because he asked you if you wanted to design it and you said no, but now you are questioning his way. I imagine he asked you if you wanted to design it because he was worried about this exact scenario. It can often be bothersome when you are a professional who has done something many times and the person you are doing the work for(or someone they know) questions how and why you are doing things. The fact that you told him you are an engineer probably scared him from the start and that is why he asked you to design it. This may sound harsh, but from his point of view, he has done and knows how to do the work, you are someone who doesn't do the work(or you would do it yourself from his point of view) and you are trying to question his method. I don't do roofing nor have I seen this project, but I would bet his price is higher because he anticipates some frustration from you trying to inspect and critique his work. You may not be like that at all, but many engineers and such are when dealing with a contractor, so he may just be stereotyping you in an attempt to protect himself. I hope this hasn't come across to harsh, but as a contractor who has dealt with people like I have described, it can be a very annoying experience.
 
#17 ·
I bet part of his response is due to not wanting to critiqued and questioned by an engineering person. Probably get the same reaction if you were in an architects office.

Lots of GCs, and the guys actually working on a project(the guys doing the work), have bad experiences with architects and engineers. There is a sort of conflict between the guys that can drive a nail and know from expierence what works well on site vs the guys that sit at a desk and draw pretty renderings or dictate structural issues.

That said, if you have a drawing of the design and are in a related field it shouldn't be too difficult to cipher out at least a close approximation of the materials cost.
 
#18 ·
He is probably seeing you might be a bit of a PITA in that you said you didn't want to be involved in the design, and are now questioning his methods, you may come across as a bit too much of a headache in a relatively straitforward smaller job.

He has his right to not break down material and labour costs, there are other costs involved in running a business that may not be as transparent, so you may interpret his profit as being different from what it actually is. He may be getting a sense that you are price shopping and are wanting to haggle with price, and so doesn't want to waste his time.

If you aren't happy with the price don't waste his time, just get other quotes.
 
#20 ·
The OP most definitly has the right to ask for that, anybody does when spending hard earned money on goods, service's,work performed, And he had the right to walk away from the job and not take the little bit of time to break it down, if he run's a company and by your post has a computer, he could have spit out a spread sheet just that quick. But sounds like he was about to take you for a spin, And I'm sorry it's not classified top secret that material's and what not get marked up, that's business. And you saying upfront you didn't want to design the job, doesn't strip you of your right to ask question's.I get it, that maybe he didn't want to do the job with someone standing over his shoulder but "Get over it", He is working in or on people's home's, So best thing to do is shake it off and be glad the "Prick" in him showed it self and he left.Good luck with you project
 
#21 ·
Bottom line......... Would your boss let you show his company's financial breakdown to a potential customer you were planning work for? You KNOW he wouldn't. The customer will get a price for work requested. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Two bids I could give under these circumstances........

Bid #1: $13,500...... $6,000 materials.... $7,500 labor.

Bid #2: $13,500...... $7,500 materials.... $6,000 labor.

Now the HO knows about as much as they did before they asked. Personally, I'd just jack up the materials high so they felt they were getting top quality. And I'd put the labor real low so they felt I was really giving them a deal.

I'd still get the same money.

This is the same as the dumb GC who insists on Sq ft pricing from subs. You give him sf prices PER HOUSE..... Never across the board. Or...... AVERAGE all his various model sq footages so that you get what you need.
 
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