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Old 02-17-2007, 08:08 AM   #16
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Final payment..When to pay it?


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Originally Posted by harleysilo View Post
.....ones out there that don't even recognize their own bad work.....

.... If you can't convince him to make it right you are screwed.

Sounds like both of these points above have already come to pass with the issue the original poster is currently dealing with.....


Either, way, the 'alleged' GC (I use that title lightly based on the description of his work)....has already stated his terms of co-operation. Those terms don't exist (to him) and he is not willing to do anything else the H.O. wants done ....
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Old 02-17-2007, 04:00 PM   #17
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Final payment..When to pay it?


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Thank you everyone for your responses on this matter. I will give some more details to clear a few things up.

I will try and post the contract here for you all to read and comment on.

Contract. Pricing was on a separate sheet.
__________________________________________________ _________
NOTICE TO OWNER


Under the California Mechanicís Lien Law, any contractor, subcontractor, laborer, supplier, or other person or entity who helps to improve your property, but is not paid for his or her work or supplies, has a right to place a lien on your home, land, or property where the work was performed and to sue you in court to obtain payment.

This means that after a court hearing, your home, land, and property could be sold by a court officer and the proceeds of the sale used to satisfy what you owe. This can happen even if you have paid your contractor in full if the contractorís subcontractors, laborers, or suppliers remain unpaid.

To preserve their rights to file a claim or lien against your property, certain claimants such as subcontractors or materials suppliers are each required to provide you with a document called a ďPreliminary Notice.Ē

Contractors and laborers who contract with owners directly do not have to provide such notice since you are aware of their existence as an owner. A preliminary notice is not a lien against your property. Itís purpose is to notify you of persons or entities that may have a right to file a lien against your property if they are not paid. In order to perfect their lien rights, a contractor, subcontractor, supplier, or laborer must file a mechanicís lien with the county recorder which then becomes a recorded lien against your property. Generally, the maximum time allowed for filing a mechanicís lien against your property is 90 days after substantial completion of your project.
ACCEPTANCE
__________________________________________________ _________


When the texture was completed on the inside of the new addition, the GC requested final payment through email, and I responded with a reasonable punchlist to be completed before final 10% retention was paid. Here is his response."
__________________________________________________ ________

"My patience has just reached an end here. We did a great job on your house for a great price. The law says that final payment is due upon substantial completion, and substantial completion is defined as the work being finished to a point where it can be used for it's intended use. We have met that condition and have been beyond that point for a long time. We will do nothing until we get paid, and you will hear from the county by the end of the week. I will put a mechanics lien on your home today. As far as your claims of damage, I will claim damages as well on my lien with all the problems you have caused me during this whole project. These problems include this email coming in at the 11th hour, when I have jumped through hoops to get paid and complete the work to your satisfaction."
__________________________________________________ _________________

I just want my house done. I want it looking how it did before the construction. Is this too much to ask? The GC was paid each and every time he requested payment on the spot. This is not a money issue.

Thanks.
Sounds like you ran into a scum bag contractor.. final payment when the texture has been sprayed on the walls; he must be kidding. If he thinks he is due final payment at this point, you can be pretty sure that your chances of getting the job finished satisfactorlly are slim to none. Do not be intimidated by his lien threats, spend a few dollars for a lawyer. It is pretty obvious that your are not going to get any satisfaction dealing with him.
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Old 02-19-2007, 08:13 PM   #18
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Final payment..When to pay it?


Get a lawyer. He's blowing smoke. Get bids for the lawn, painting, ect. Sorry you got taken buy a bad apple. We're not all like this. Name bashing welcome.
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Old 02-20-2007, 03:42 PM   #19
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Final payment..When to pay it?


Two sides to every story.

Let me share a couple of comments.

first off - I occasionally do side jobs for people or commissioned furniture. I am up front with my customers as to what to expect and what my delivery will be. I do not use a formal contract. I also do not require any money up front. For custom furniture I figure I can sell it if the customer does not want it in the end.

One such project I got a call from a customer whom I was building a custom vanity and linen closet for. She said her husband just got laid off, had to move, and no longer needed or wanted the furniture I had started building for her. No problem, I said and good luck with the move. She insisted on paying me for my time so far and my materials used. I only let her pay for some of the materials,. we both departed happy.

Another time I did pergola for someone - Same thing. Pay me when complete and you are happy. I fronted the $5K for materials, built the thing in two days, presented my invoice for the price agreed upon. Guess what? I was paid MORE than the invoice!

Key for me is to do a good job so I will get paid.

Another story - I had my basement drywalled. I am doing almost all the work myself. Only subbed out the rock, hanging, mud, etc. Got three different quotes. I picked the best price but also the best contractor. They are not always the same thing. The estimator showed up when promised, crew started when promised, etc. The contract was for 1/3 on delivery of materials and 2/3 when complete. The job boss showed up on the second day of the job to request the first 1/3. The job was progressing so well and the crew was doing such a good job that I just went out on a limb and paid the entire balance. The job was finished on time and as expected. I also tipped the workers and provided refreshments.

Anyway - contractors are people too. Communications is a must. You can tell a lot about someone when you shake their hand, talk to them and so forth. Maybe I have a gift. I have used a lot of various contractors in the past and have always had a good experience.

Another story - I once hired a plumber to move a water meter. I contacted the company via phone and asked for a price over the phone. Most do not want to do that but I was able to provide enough details about the job and assurances to the plumber that I would pay for the job, not on the quote.
To make a long story short the job took longer than expected because of an unseen issue with the city shut-off valve that needed to involve the township water department. The plumber insisted on only charging me the quoted price. I told him that I wanted to pay more since he was held of longer than expected. He would only take the quoted price. (In reality he was able to do other parts of the job while waiting on the water co so he wasn't out for that much longer than expected). Long story short - I hired him for another job a few weeks later (One I had originally planed to do myself). I also recommend him to anyone looking to hire a plumber.

What can we take from all of this?
For the OP - Deal with your contractors professionally, with courtesy, respect and cold beverages. You will get the same in return and get a good job done. Also, use good judgement when hiring. I like the analogy someone used about interviewing them like you would a date for your teenage daughter.

For the contractors - Don't be afraid to walk away form a job that will be a pain in the arse. And by pain, I mean the customer, not the job. Its just not worth it.
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:39 PM   #20
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Final payment..When to pay it?


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....Another time I did pergola for someone - Same thing. Pay me when complete and you are happy. I fronted the $5K for materials, built the thing in two days, presented my invoice for the price agreed upon. Guess what? I was paid MORE than the invoice!
.....
Another story - I had my basement drywalled. .......I also tipped the workers....
Tips?
..............What is this thing you call a ... tip ??

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 02-20-2007 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:09 PM   #21
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Final payment..When to pay it?


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Tips?
..............What is this thing you call a ... tip ??
hey man - Come to my house and do a good job, per personable, etc and you will get a tip, a cold one or a lunch. Curmudgeons need not apply.

When my house was being built I occasionally dropped by the job site with disposable coolers full of sodas or bottled water.

My house, two years later, has have almost zero nail pops for instance, next door neighbor had about a hundred. Correlation? maybe, maybe not. I can think of several technical reasons why this may have been but also partially, maybe, a little bit of extra care taken by the framers for instance.
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:18 PM   #22
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Final payment..When to pay it?


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My house, two years later, has have almost zero nail pops for instance, next door neighbor had about a hundred. Correlation? maybe, maybe not. I can think of several technical reasons why this may have been but also partially, maybe, a little bit of extra care taken by the framers for instance.
Sidepoint:

Regarding popped screws-

We did a work on a job about 4 years ago, where all the screws popped. It was a 300sf pre-fab sectional...shipped down from Canada. Even the screws on the pre-fab part popped. Problem turned out to be damp lumber during framing....back at the plant...
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:27 PM   #23
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Final payment..When to pay it?


Exactly - That's why I said "several technical reasons". My house went from lumber delivery to under roof w/o any rain. Neighbors did not. But, looking at my framing job it was very neat and tight. Couldn't slip a playing card between any joints. Were they all built this way? Dunno.
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:55 PM   #24
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Final payment..When to pay it?


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Exactly - That's why I said "several technical reasons". My house went from lumber delivery to under roof w/o any rain. Neighbors did not. But, looking at my framing job it was very neat and tight. Couldn't slip a playing card between any joints. Were they all built this way? Dunno.
Sometimes builders will use different framing crews. While working on the house next store, we got called to go back to a nearly completed house to do all kinds of fixes (on a $700,000.00 home that the builder had hired another framing crew to do)..... Front wall was completely out of plumb (you could even see it), deck was tilted 'towards' the house, etc...ugly, ugly stuff...

I worked on one framing crew where the lead guy was all about speed.
....and I worked on good crews where the work was all about quality , but still done at a reasonable pace. Obviously, learned alot of good things from the second group....
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:17 PM   #25
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yep - Remember the old adage. You can have it cheap, you can have it fast and you can have good quality. Pick Two.
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:14 PM   #26
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Final payment..When to pay it?


We now have a lawyer involved, but here is the kicker.

Our neighborhood is constantly improving, and this contractor submitted bids for 6 other additions.
EACH HOMEOWNER GAVE HIM THE CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!!! Even though everyone in the neighborhood knows of the hardships we went through with this GC. I guess everyone wants the lowest bidder for the job, and doesn't care about quality. He is 30k lower then the next GC, and each homeowner signs away. How do you add two bedrooms up stairs, new roof, two new bathrooms, all finished turn key for 65k? He is going to screw these people, and I warned each of them.

Have a good day.
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