Does your job require a permit? - Page 3 - DIY Chatroom

**AtlanticWBConst.** · 05-30-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moneymgmt

Our town here in Michigan has 6 "Code Enforcement Agents" on the payroll. I've met 3 of them, all have been complete idiots. Their job is to drive around all day and catch people doing things that require a permit. 2 years ago I had new windows installed, they drove up like the place was on fire. She jumped out, demanded all work be ceased (my old windows were out but the new ones not in yet) and started to write me up. I told to get her boss on the phone, I wanted to talk to the city inspector. 2 hours later the work crew is picking their noses sitting around scared for their jobs when the inspector calls back. News flash: so long as the structure is not being altered new windows don't require a permit. You better believe the city had a letter from me come Monday morning questioning why my tax dollars are paying the salaries of complete morons who do not even know the codes they are paid to enforce.

Last year I gutted my kitchen down to the studs. New wiring, plumbing, cabinets, lighting, the whole nine yards..... a bed sheet over the windows is a nice way to avoid needed $500 worth of permits. I'm not saying they aren't necessary because every Tom, ************, and Harry out there shouldn't be doing significant home improvements, but around here its more of a business to the city than a prevention tool.

Regarding your claim: That's too bad you had to go through that. And my condolences, if, (as you allege) there are 3 inspectors that you have disagreed with, in your town .....

Please be aware that in all the towns that we have worked in over the years in 3 states, we have not found anything remotely similar to the one situation that you claim to have gone through. (If that had happened to us, we would have laughed, taken out a copy of code requirements and kept working. You're ignorance of the codes caused your delays and the situation.)

We have a copy of the state building codes on all jobs that we do (it is required by law). We also have State issued ''sheets'' that show what is required and what is not required to have a permit for.

Regarding Permits, I know that you stated:

Quote:

Originally Posted by moneymgmt

.....I'm not saying they aren't necessary .....

I must say, that I still don't agree that (due to the experience that you claim you went thru) this would ever equate to a valid reason not to follow building code laws and the obtaining of all required permits in any Town, City or Jurisdiction.

And this point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by moneymgmt

.....but around here its more of a business to the city than a prevention tool.

Doesn't matter.....do you NOT pay your property taxes simply because you feel that they are too high? The law is the law. If you don't like it, run for office and change it. If you choose to break the law, please don't come on this site and brag about it, as if to encourage members to do the same.

moneymgmt · 05-30-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlanticWBConst.

If that had happened to us, we would have laughed, taken out a copy of code requirements and kept working. You're ignorance of the codes caused your delays and the situation.

I must say, that I still don't agree that (due to the experience that you claim you went thru) this equates to a valid reason not to follow building code laws and obtaining required permits, in general....

FWIW-We've never had issues with Town building departments in the manner that you claim to have experienced.

Geez Atlantic, take it easy... "I allege to have happened...."??? Yes, I CLAIM it happened. (248) 546-2365 That's the number for code enforcement, give them a call at your leisure and keep telling me you know more about the situation and the city workers than I do. I bought 13 windows from a very reputable company, little did I know that they only make the windows and then contract out the installations. So no, the installation crew did not have a permit on hand.... they didn't need to. I fail to see how my ignorance escalated the situation further than a code enforcement agent who didn't have the codes on hand. Its not my job to do your job.

I completely agree with you about codes; precisely nowhere did I say code laws should not be followed. That is rediculous. I said, permits are not necessary in all cases. Following the codes and pulling permits are two different things. I'd venture to say that not all the contractors on this site pull every last legal permit when working on their own homes.

HAASEMAN2003 · 05-30-2007, 12:10 PM

I have remodeled 2 homes now that had some blackout creative remodels done to them. On both I wondered how these places where still standing. I know there are times that I would like to strangle the inspectors the county sends out. It is more of a difference of opinion and less of their intelligence. I to am sorry that you have had this experience with inspectors but I agree with Atlantic whole heartedly that in the end to have the inspection is best.
Just the opinion of a DIY guy

moneymgmt · 05-30-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlanticWBConst.

Doesn't matter.....do you NOT pay your property taxes simply because you feel that they are too high? The law is the law. If you don't like it, run for office and change it.

Sit back a minute and relax, You keep editing your post like an unfinished novel. I'm not encouraging anyone to break the law. And for the record, I AGREE with my property taxes, that's why I live where I do. You shouldn't assume everyone complains about property taxes.

Gerry Kiernan · 05-30-2007, 12:55 PM

Why would anyone watch daytime soaps with this going on. Actually it is good to hear both sides.I agree with both. Permits are a pain, but in the long haul they are essential, and sometimes the inspectors are even knowledgeable enough to make good sound recommendations to the homeowner.

Gerry

KUIPORNG · 05-30-2007, 02:42 PM

The real only thing I don't like about permit is "it has a permanent negative effect to your already very high property tax"... other than that.. I only see positive... the one time fee is well justify with all the questions/advices you can ask the department/inspector....

but the raise in property tax due to increase in property value is going to stay with the home you own for generations or people who is buying your house....

Cuc Tu · 06-08-2007, 08:38 PM

around here, we need a permit for just about anything, such as repairing a deck over 30" high, or touching any building over 120 sqft.

I was thinking about re-roofing my detached garage, but the permit would cost more than the materials.

"
When is a Building Permit Required?
A building permit must be obtained before you erect, construct, enlarge, alter, move, repair, improve, convert, or demolish any building or structure, including decks over 30 inches high, patio covers, sheds over 120 square feet, fences over 6 feet high, and retaining walls."

I thought there was a provision to allow repairs, such as roof repairs, but I guess not.

Gerry Kiernan · 06-10-2007, 09:56 AM

I agree about the tax thing, but if you ever had a total loss, ie fire, you might have some difficulty establishing the replacement value if all the paper work isn't there. In my neck of the woods the values, as far as tax purposes are concerned, are established by a combination of what the local properties are selling for, and what improvements have been made. Sometimes you just get caught up in what is happening with the real estate market. Up here it is currently smokin' right along at unheard of price increases.

Gerry

747 · 06-15-2007, 01:35 AM

Where i live a permit is only required if your changing something structual on remodeling.

Gerry Kiernan · 06-15-2007, 11:45 AM

To me that makes sense. Some jurisdictions want to control every little detail of your day to day.

Gerry

**AtlanticWBConst.** · 06-15-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 747

Where i live a permit is only required if your changing something structual on remodeling.

You might want to check your local inspectional or State code services again about the ''specifics''.

Jurisdictions are now getting very particular about their wording regarding what has to have a permit and what does not.
It is usually much more precise than simply: "If you are changing something structural on remodeling".

phxcanes · 06-28-2007, 02:02 PM

Does anyone have any suggestions for a diy patio cover?

Gerry Kiernan · 06-28-2007, 04:41 PM

probably the safest bet is to ask your local municipal/city building department . They will likely want to know what type of cover you have in mind.

Gerry

**AtlanticWBConst.** · 06-28-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phxcanes

Does anyone have any suggestions for a diy patio cover?

Any particular reason why this question was posted in the permit requirement thread? Are you concerned about codes in regards to this?

FWIW - Have you considered a simple portable canopy system like these types:

http://www.nextag.com/portable-canopy/search-html

Not quite a DIY system, but inexpensive never the less. You wouldn't be able to leave them up all the time due to the possibility of heavy winds or storms, but that is the case with large expensive awnings as well....

Dan101 · 07-01-2007, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 747

Where i live a permit is only required if your changing something structual on remodeling.

That's great. But I would prefer to live and work somewhere where the permit requirements are a little more specific. When I was younger, I may have completed a few jobs without pulling all permits but now I realize there are lots of good reasons to work with permits.