Does your job require a permit? - Page 12 - DIY Chatroom

**Scuba_Dave** · 11-05-2009, 02:17 PM

You would need to check with your local building Dept
Here the electric permit/inspection is seperate from the rest
Order of inspections here:
Rough electric
Rough framing
Rough plumbing
Insulation

Final:
includes wiring/plumbing & Fire Inspection
Gas inspection (I don't have gas)

Sheila4467 · 11-06-2009, 06:42 AM

Back in 1985, when I moved into my new home, my new neighbor was about to put up a huge deck, over 75' long and 14' deep, with a small deck that came out of his second floor bedroom.

It was then that I told him about the big fight that was going on in the local paper, about the new building codes.
Everyone was mad about the changes, but they said, "You build it without the permits, and you will have to take it down."

Sure enough, he built it anyway. It was up for exactly 4 days.

Then they came, and made him take it down. One of our other neighbors told on him.

After taking all the cemented 4x4's out of the ground, and taking it all apart, he never built it the size it was originally again. He never even finished the deck to his bedroom either. He had to go to the Planning Office dozens of times, and had to do a million things they required of him from then on. It was a nightmare. He spent more time having to make up for what he had done, than he had time for rebuilding the deck.

Too bad too, it really was a beautiful deck that wrapped around the house. I doubt that Dave will ever build again without getting a permit and the Planning Comm's OK!

**Scuba_Dave** · 11-06-2009, 10:27 AM

Here I was able to just pull the framing permit for my addition
I've been working on the framing for a year & have yet to pull the permit for electric & start that

gripp2020 · 11-06-2009, 01:39 PM

does pulling a permit just for framming STILL increase your taxes? Or is it just when the basement is finnished that it will raise the property taxes. Like i said earlier. I cant afford an additional $300 to my mortgage. If i can get a permit for individual parts that is a better way to go.

**Scuba_Dave** · 11-06-2009, 02:33 PM

Contact your local building Dept
Usually ANY improvement to your home CAN increase your taxes
If you don't want your taxes to increase then don't improve your home

Knucklez · 11-07-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Back in 1985, when I moved into my new home, my new neighbor was about to put up a huge deck, over 75' long and 14' deep, with a small deck that came out of his second floor bedroom.

It was then that I told him about the big fight that was going on in the local paper, about the new building codes.
Everyone was mad about the changes, but they said, "You build it without the permits, and you will have to take it down."

Sure enough, he built it anyway. It was up for exactly 4 days.

Then they came, and made him take it down. One of our other neighbors told on him.

After taking all the cemented 4x4's out of the ground, and taking it all apart, he never built it the size it was originally again. He never even finished the deck to his bedroom either. He had to go to the Planning Office dozens of times, and had to do a million things they required of him from then on. It was a nightmare. He spent more time having to make up for what he had done, than he had time for rebuilding the deck.

Too bad too, it really was a beautiful deck that wrapped around the house. I doubt that Dave will ever build again without getting a permit and the Planning Comm's OK!

in a related story, every neighbour's window got egged.

Knucklez · 11-07-2009, 11:21 AM

we have articles running in the local paper talking about how people should get permits, what the value of that process is, how wonderful the staff are that want to help you .. etc etc.

then you go there with an application and you find a different story. you notice you fall into one of two groups

1) architect/builder job = no hassle

2) homeowner DIY = get hassled and frowned upon, and then more hassles

i fall into group 2).

but then a curious thing happens... the 2nd time you submit a permit for DIY you know what the city is looking for and you do a better job describing the project and communicating with the city pros. and the hassles are less.

by the 3rd time you are finally treated with some respect (grudgingly) and things go smoother.

i was under the impression that my drawings to scale with dimensions and on graph paper were not as good as pro's CAD drawing - but surely better than the back of the envelope sketches that the city must be getting from DIY'ers on a regular basis. so i wasn't expecting any problems. but what i learned from the process was:

a) nobody does work themselves, so no DIY is drawing plans and submitting. thus my permit application must have looked like mickey mouse compared to what city staff are used to seeing.

b) their job is NOT to tell you what you need to do to meet code. their job is to review and reject. ... if , and i stress if, they tell you what is wrong with your permit then it is solely out of the goodness of their hart. otherwise, its up to you to figure it out (and they suggest you hire an engineer to draft the plans).

Knucklez

MBH210 · 11-07-2009, 01:11 PM

i have a question about installing rounded door hinges

**Scuba_Dave** · 11-07-2009, 01:13 PM

I guess I went overboard then with 3 different software programs for design
I submitted detailed plans, plus a plot plan with all dimensions on the plan
I had a computer generated blueprint of each floor & each wall
Plus I had someone draw up ($100) a 3D sketch of what the house would look like after construction

My biggest hurdle was the Conservation Committee due to a stream on the property
And that paperwork/requirements were State/Federal requirements
They (Town) had no problem with the work I wanted to do
But they explained unless it was all outlined correctly & approved by Conservation then the State could actually make me take it down even if the Town approved it

Knucklez · 11-07-2009, 03:00 PM

sounds like you did your homework. you set a good example for all of us DIY'ers

Sheila4467 · 11-07-2009, 10:01 PM

Years ago, in Southern Maryland, you could build almost anything without a permit, however when the codes were about to change, I believe the State looked for every code ever created, to include into the new rules.

Since most in So. MD are DIY'ers, it was not taken lightly that things were changing. Everyone complained, wrote their Congressman, County Commissioners, the editors of all the local Newspapers, and you couldn't even shop for groceries, without hearing the latest complaints about the new building codes.

Eventually, things calmed down, and even though MD'ers still feel that there are too many building codes, we do agree, that changing the codes, was a very important thing to do.

It's nice to know, that if you purchased a home, built after about 1977, no one was going to have to worry about shabby wiring, plumbing, or anything else.

To be honest, homes built before that time were fine too, but the codes did MAKE everyone live with safety and better building. That's a "Good Thing"
__________________________________________

HOWEVER........................

Now that it's MY TURN to have to face the "Permit's People" I shake every time I even think of it.

My project really is ME doing this myself!
It's not that I will be, the perfect definition of a DIYer, but that I will be doing as much as I am able to do, alone. (decision wise)

Yes, I'm going to have to get a lot of Permits, a lot more than I thought, or they listed, but not more than I knew had to be done, job wise.
(many attachments to the permit applications)

Funny, this is the only part that actually scares me.

Thank goodness I found this forum! Someone to talk to, can make all the difference sometimes.

Your experiences here, help me put things into perspective, and gives me a "heads up" on what to expect. It helps so much!

fireguy · 11-08-2009, 10:01 PM

The % of hack contractors is about equal to the % of hack inspectors. Recently, the owner of the sheet metal shop I work with and I went to a code class in Salem. Out of all the contractors in the State of Oregon who install commercial kitchen exhaust systems & fire suppression systems, only Steve & I were in attendance. Steve & I work with about 20 fire and building inspectors. Only 1 attended the class. Fortunalty, he will be the inspector on our next exhaust system/fire system install. I am constantly amazed at the ignorance of those in the building trades, at all levels. And I am even more amazed and dismayed at the lack of code enforcement.

Next April, the State of Oregon will have new amendments to the specialty mechanical code & a new Fire Code. I will spend about $300.00 for the new code books. There will be classes available. Steve and I will be in attendance, but we do not expect to see any other contractors in class, again. But I do expect to see some of the inspectors I work with. That helps when it is time for job inspections.

Before starting a project, go to the inspectors office and ask questions, lots of questions. Ask to see the code book. If you are a contractor, you should already have the code books. If you are not a contractor, they should make copies for you. There may be a charge for copies. Study the codes and then go back and ask questions. What may be common sense to someone in the trades, may not be common sense to a home owner. If the inspector does not seem to know what he is talking about, ask for another inspector. Document everything you are told. If you are lucky you will get an inspector like the termite from KC. If you get the other type of inspector, ask for another inspector.

Sheila4467 · 11-09-2009, 05:28 AM

In So. MD you have to collect the codes yourself! NOT a very easy job, and at first, I couldn't get anyone that even knew which ones I needed!

The best information I finally got was from the Library. They have all of them right there on two connected tables, two sets lined up together, but also opposite each other, so you have two sides to use. The table is a long one, and the books sit in the middle and take up about half of the tables. It has dozens of sections, and even if you know what you want, good luck at finding what you want, or trying to understand them. They are very complicated.

THAT is when I learned the value of an inspector.
I still fear Permits, but have learned that if I want to do anyting, I better get a to know an inspector and make friends. It took 3 actual appointments to find the one I could stand, but he showed me he would take some time for me, and that is all I was looking for, since that is the biggest problem here. Rushed inspectors, with no time for anyone!

I had to agree, I'm not going to get anywhere without them, so I decided to take a gulp, and be thankful that there is someone there to help, even if they have little time for me. I then added a lot of extra inspector time to my time line. So.......... If it's on the timetable, I gotta follow it!

Never Give Up! (best lesson I ever learned)

Aggie67 · 11-14-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite

So many engineers prostitute themselves out on this sort of thing

KC, I've got a new one for you. This is an example of the lower reaches of the industry we're in.

It's 10:20pm one night this week, and I get a call from a builder I ran into over the summer. Not even a client. He has to respond to a suit by the end of the next day. He gives me no details what so ever. No address, nothing, just a brief "I'm getting sued, and the architect is getting sued, but the architect has O&E insurance and I don't." He says "I need a letter from a PE by 4pm tomorrow or I'm screwed. My lawyer will call you in a few minutes." It's 10:20 at night. I tried to tell him the truth, that it's 10:20 the night before, I'd need to know what the issue was and do a site visit, etc, and there isn't any guarantee that you wouldn't be at fault, and by the way I have meetings already booked Friday up to 2pm, so I can't help you. "You don't need to do any of that, just talk to my lawyer."

(Long and short of it, though, the lawyer never calls me.)