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Old 12-28-2006, 05:00 PM   #16
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


The bottom line is that he can charge you anything and account for it anyway he wants. You do not have to accept his bid, and quite frankly, it is none of your business how he arrived at the total. He is giving you a price to do the job, not working as an estimator for you.

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Old 12-28-2006, 06:02 PM   #17
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


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Originally Posted by Mikedks View Post
Brickie sounds like he's saying, "the price is the price, take it or leave it". Is that true?

Mikedks,


As Tscar so eloquently puts it:

The bottom line is that he can charge you anything and account for it anyway he wants. You do not have to accept his bid, and quite frankly, it is none of your business how he arrived at the total. He is giving you a price to do the job, not working as an estimator for you.


Since you don't like his quote, get others to quote your job.


6thstring,

Titletown is not that far from where I grew up & it's definitely not a third world country. I do know that the overwhelming majority of masonry contractors would agree with Tscar & me on this topic than would agree with your position. How about posing this question to the masonry contractors on CT & see what they say?
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Old 12-29-2006, 01:07 PM   #18
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


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The bottom line is that he can charge you anything and account for it anyway he wants. You do not have to accept his bid, and quite frankly, it is none of your business how he arrived at the total. He is giving you a price to do the job, not working as an estimator for you.
None of my business????

You are out of your mind!

If you told me you would do the job for say $6000.00 flat than you would be right. I could weigh the price and decide if it worked. None of my business how you arrived at it.

On the other hand, an estimate is just that, a rough guess, Price not guaranteed. You know as well as I that quotes can be all over the place and the lowest quote isnt necessarily the best quote. How is the average person supposed to know if the estimate is good or not if they don't ask what is in it?. I hire quality tradesman with good references, insurance, full licensing, and a name they stand behind. That costs money and its fine, in fact, thats what I want,tradesmen who stand behind their name and reputation. I find it VERY hard to believe both Brickie/Tscar, if asked, would refuse to divulge the particulars of an estimate. Do you two have so much work lined up and so little respect for your business' name that you can come off as combative and abrasive?. I have never run into a pro who refused to discuss his estimate, NEVER.

Lets think about it, if you don't have anything to hide, why be so evasive?. In the end, people are just afraid of being scammed and want to avoid it.

One last thing, every potential customer you piss-off with a take it or leave attitude is an instant ex-customer. AND, they do tell friends and family.
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Old 12-29-2006, 03:11 PM   #19
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


Estimator is a specific term, and what an estimator does is do a material and time takeoff for exactly what is required to cost the job. That information, and the methods used to derive it are confidential.

An estimate, on the other hand, is just that: an estimated cost for the job. If you sign an estimate for a job, then you are agreeing to pay for any overages that are incurred. Very few people will do that. What you generally sign is a bid; a price to complete the job, regardless of how much or how little it ends up costing the contractor to do so.

If a contractor is giving you a detailed materials list as well as an estimated labor cost, then he is crazy, not professional.

edited for spelling, and to add this:


You are not my customer, and I am not trying to be your contractor. Nor am I trying to be rude. I am giving you my take on what you should expect when hiring a contractor to complete a specific project in as simple and direct terms as I can.

Here is the best explanation I have come up with so far:

The contractor is offering you a turnkey price, based upon his personal and confidential estimate of what is required to complete the job and make a living. You are making a decision based upon personal and confidential criteria. You have no more need or right to see his calculations than he to require written and detailed reasons why you rejected his bid.

Last edited by Tscarborough; 12-29-2006 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 12-29-2006, 08:16 PM   #20
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


Mikedks,


I find it VERY hard to believe both Brickie/Tscar, if asked, would refuse to divulge the particulars of an estimate.


There are no "particulars" for "just expanding the hole" The price is the price. Don't like it, get other quotes or do it your self.


I have never run into a pro who refused to discuss his estimate, NEVER.


Well, there plenty of them here that agree with Tscar & me:


http://www.contractortalk.com/showthread.php?t=16208



Lets think about it, if you don't have anything to hide, why be so evasive?.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that it is proprietary information & none of your business?????
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:02 PM   #21
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


I will poke my head into this... A pro will discuss the estimate with you as far as TERMS: This is what I will do and I will do this also. This is the price you will pay. How that money is spent after that is up to the contractor. When I first started my company I did list material costs and found out that breaking down the estimate was a waste of time. It would take me a lot longer to put together an estimate and not even get the job. Plus 99% of the customers only wanted to know this: Will you do all I asked? and How much will it cost? So that is all my estimates include. A list of what will be done and the cost. And this has been working great for me lately.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:09 PM   #22
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


Unbelievable!!!!!!
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Old 12-30-2006, 02:32 AM   #23
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


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Originally Posted by robertcdf View Post
I will poke my head into this... A pro will discuss the estimate with you as far as TERMS: This is what I will do and I will do this also. This is the price you will pay. How that money is spent after that is up to the contractor. When I first started my company I did list material costs and found out that breaking down the estimate was a waste of time. It would take me a lot longer to put together an estimate and not even get the job. Plus 99% of the customers only wanted to know this: Will you do all I asked? and How much will it cost? So that is all my estimates include. A list of what will be done and the cost. And this has been working great for me lately.
Robert are you moving in colorado springs or still digging out. I'm assuming you have a set of tire chains for you truck. Those are a must have in colorado.
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Old 12-30-2006, 07:06 AM   #24
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


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Robert are you moving in colorado springs or still digging out. I'm assuming you have a set of tire chains for you truck. Those are a must have in colorado.
I wonder if snow plowers add on the cost of snow chains to each lot they give a bid too?
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Old 12-30-2006, 01:04 PM   #25
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


I wonder if those who he plows for ask how much he spent on his truck, and complain because he bought a nice one.....
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Old 12-30-2006, 01:52 PM   #26
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


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I wonder if those who he plows for ask how much he spent on his truck, and complain because he bought a nice one.....
they are the same people that also complain if he's driving a rust bucket that's leaking oil all over their drive.....
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:31 PM   #27
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


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Mikedks,


I find it VERY hard to believe both Brickie/Tscar, if asked, would refuse to divulge the particulars of an estimate.


There are no "particulars" for "just expanding the hole" The price is the price. Don't like it, get other quotes or do it your self.


I have never run into a pro who refused to discuss his estimate, NEVER.


Well, there plenty of them here that agree with Tscar & me:


http://www.contractortalk.com/showthread.php?t=16208



Lets think about it, if you don't have anything to hide, why be so evasive?.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that it is proprietary information & none of your business?????
Proprietary information?, what do you have the secret formula for New Coke?.

I think you guys have the wrong impression, i'm not interested in viewing your labor hours breakdown, depreciation expense, materials cost, your contractors discount at the local shop or your markup. I just want to have a friendly conversation which covers licensing, insurance, references and an outline of what the estimate entails.I
never said nor implied that I wanted a detailed estimate with all costs specifically laidout. On the other hand, in this day of contractors running off with clients cash and half completed jobs and shoddy workmanship, it is in my best interest to ask how he intends to complete said project.

Too many honest people get taken by NOT asking questions and NOT
holding contractors accountable.

You my friend, appear to be the poster boy for why I ask detailed questions and cover my a$$.

The good guys out there won't take your money when you offer to pay for estimating time(which I always do) and will answer every question with a smile.
Thanks much to those guys.
Cheers!
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Old 12-30-2006, 07:32 PM   #28
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


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Originally Posted by Mikedks View Post
Proprietary information?, what do you have the secret formula for New Coke?.

I think you guys have the wrong impression, i'm not interested in viewing your labor hours breakdown, depreciation expense, materials cost, your contractors discount at the local shop or your markup. I just want to have a friendly conversation which covers licensing, insurance, references and an outline of what the estimate entails.I
never said nor implied that I wanted a detailed estimate with all costs specifically laidout. On the other hand, in this day of contractors running off with clients cash and half completed jobs and shoddy workmanship, it is in my best interest to ask how he intends to complete said project.

Too many honest people get taken by NOT asking questions and NOT
holding contractors accountable.

You my friend, appear to be the poster boy for why I ask detailed questions and cover my a$$.

The good guys out there won't take your money when you offer to pay for estimating time(which I always do) and will answer every question with a smile.
Thanks much to those guys.
Cheers!

Sorry, not buying it Mikedks. You're just pissed that the overwhelming majority of respondents to this thread in the DIY & CT don't agree with your position.
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Old 12-30-2006, 07:50 PM   #29
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


His opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. That is the beauty of the whole pre-contract transaction; Either party can walk away for any reason at any time.
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Old 12-30-2006, 08:50 PM   #30
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Are diamond masonary blades really that expensive?


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Sorry, not buying it Mikedks. You're just pissed that the overwhelming majority of respondents to this thread in the DIY & CT don't agree with your position.
Actually brickie, most agree he SHOULD NOT be charged full price. Depreciation or no charge won out over full price of blade. Check your numbers.

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