Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > DIY Repair > General DIY Discussions

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-15-2008, 01:11 PM   #61
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


I just about passed out when a guy came and told me it would be about $900.0o to "vent" 12 windows in my house. I totally want to dremmel it out.... I checked out the website to get the vents that are adhesive. Any chance on buying them????? Dan can't wait to hear how your project is going. I love the fact that you gave such detailed directions. I am going to try it. Thanks, keep up this thread!!!!!

sckarsten@juno.com is offline  
Old 01-06-2009, 04:49 PM   #62
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


I too have several very large fogged up tempered windows that are framed in easy to disassemble wood frames which when removed provide access to the aluminum channel in most cases. I'm thinking maybe right angle drill attachment would work, maybe dremel makes one? In those where I can't get to the channel, I suppose disassembly or replacement is the only solution. I am looking forward to hearing more about the availability of the screw in vents as well as how disassembly worked out for anyone who has tried it. I have a garage side door window I will tear apart as a test and use the quick & dirty venting and post the details. If anyone has additional details or has heard or learned anything new please post. My replacement costs would be well over 10k!
chrishosley is offline  
Old 01-07-2009, 07:04 PM   #63
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


Just had to register with this forum to post and say thanks so much to Dan and the other posters. I am looking to buy a new house in OC California and one of the windows is badly fogged. Agent was saying she knows some company who can defog them so I started doing some surfing for more info, but based on this thread I could buy myself some diamond drill bits and save myself a few hundred dollars. Also wondering if it's possible to buy those gore vents anywhere.
Duffmid is offline  
Old 01-08-2009, 02:39 PM   #64
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


I have a question though, is there any reason why you couldn't use a regular drill with diamond bits? It seemed like everyone was using Dremel's or something similar. Is that just because it is a bit smaller and easier to be more precise?
Duffmid is offline  
Old 01-08-2009, 03:22 PM   #65
Member
 
bradnailer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 256
Rewards Points: 250
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffmid View Post
I have a question though, is there any reason why you couldn't use a regular drill with diamond bits? It seemed like everyone was using Dremel's or something similar. Is that just because it is a bit smaller and easier to be more precise?
Normally, a regular drill bit will not penetrate the glass and if it does, it is so coarse, there is a chance it will crack the glass.
bradnailer is offline  
Old 01-08-2009, 06:57 PM   #66
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


But couldn't you just use these types of bit http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Quality-20..._bxgy_hi_img_b put into a regular cordless drill?
Duffmid is offline  
Old 01-11-2009, 09:25 AM   #67
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


What a fiasco with meager attempts to save on energy, not only with windows, but with other means. Ha, purchased ten CFL lamps a few months ago, so far, three of them exploded and most of them that were rarely used. Friends electronic ignition went out in his furnace, really stupid compared to the cheap thermocouple and reliable units we had years ago. That little bit of heat was helping to heat the home and would always turn it off during the AC season, so how much energy is being saved? Friend had to pay $560.00 to get a new ignition module, what a ripoff. Did have to replace my gas hot water heater, and looked into the power vented models, is eligible for a tax credit, but still a major loss initially. Building inspector said I cannot mount it in my basement, because the snow could cover the vents, but it's okay to mount a vented furnace, you figure that out. But in comparing energy cost, would only save about a therm per month, and with the problems in the electronics, vent motor, ignition, and the very poor warranty, only a year on these parts, could cost an extra fortune. Cheapest one was over twice the price as a conventional hot water heater, but the conventional one had a 12 year warranty, where the vented version had a 6 year tank warranty, but only a year on the electronics.

Ethanol gas is yet another ripoff, first off, they didn't figure the price of corn with the increase in demand would rise the price of corn from a buck and a half per bushel to over nine bucks, this drastically affected all of us at the grocery store. Still takes over a gallon of fossil fuels to make a gallon of ethanol. Got a bad mix at a Milwaukee station, that is all you can buy, detonation was so bad, had to drive home with a MT vehicle in third gear to keep the engine from blowing apart and averaged a very poor 17 mpg instead of the usual 36 mpg I get from using real gas. On an older Toyota, ethanol swelled up the fuel pump made with plastic parts, 450 bucks for a new fuel pump, I was really teed off, took a picture of it and sent that to my governor that is really pushing ethanol. No reply as usual.

Son has a 14 month old energy efficient furnance, control board went to hell, his dealer said it was under a five year warranty, wanted a 150 bucks to come out plus another 110 bucks an hour to change it, but with my vast electronic knowledge, convinced him, I could change it to save my son a couple of bucks. But what happens after warranty? I did note they changed the new board, old board was crap. Guess they didn't hear about surge protection with microcontrollers. More made in China crap. I dropped everything when his furnace went out, have a new two month old granddaughter and determined his control board was a piece of crap.

So are our windows, have you checked these out lately? With many, even the multiple pane type, one baseball at the wrong spot means replacing the entire window and the also includes the frame! Breakage is not warranteed by anyone. And if you have a mortgage paying for that window at three times the price, you are really in bad shape.

My first approach was to contact http://www.crystalclearwindowworks.com/Default.html, what a load of BS I got from these people, no service guy in my area, so asked if I could buy the check valves, no, it takes great skill to install them, if they do even work. Later learned that this great skill is gained in a two day training period, but I never did get a quote.

Second approach is to treat the window as a broken one, a guy in town claims he can get the glass panels, would have to see the window, but would run about 200 bucks per panel, I have casements that I can remove in seconds, that would save me a lot as opposed to him coming out here, all these guys are charging a small fortune now to come out. Also contacted the window manufacturer, also about 200 bucks a panel, but comes with new weather stripping and just snaps in, but have to go to a dealer, they don't sell direct anymore, and screw you if you have a problem after the warranty. Mine were warranteed for twenty years, started having problems after twenty-one. The window manufacturer was kind enough to come to my home and look at them, asked him if I could buy that vinyl molding that holds the glass panel in, he was kind enough to give me his souce of the glass, a factory only 70 miles from me. Haven't contacted them yet, as can no longer get that vinyl molding, and any attempts to remove it will break it into tiny pieces. Did point out, they don't use that anymore, has been a source of problems for them, but did tell me the source of fogging is caused by that vinyl skinkage. On this note, did use silicone seal on the joints for the good windows.

I do have a wooded lot, but the windows exposed to the south sun are the problem ones, thank God or whoever, my large picture windows are on the north side of the house.

Well, I haven't done anything yet, but yearn for the days when I had very good storm windows on my older homes. Thinking about building a new home, but would really look into windows with easy to change panels if such a thing really exists. My neighbor with the same age home simply spend over 40,000 bucks for all new windows, that is also a solution. But where is the savings with these pieces of crap if you have to go through all that. Did write my congressman about these so called energy saving devices, said something about a war in Iraq. Maybe if enough of us wrote we could make a difference.

Best window is no window, but kind of hard to convince a wife of that. Ha, we want to bring the outdoors into the indoors, the whole concept is stupid.
NickD is offline  
Old 01-27-2009, 05:29 PM   #68
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


I wonder how the cleaning of the window streaks by d.a.n has worked. We have not heard from him for a while.
Runway is offline  
Old 01-27-2009, 05:54 PM   #69
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


This occurs when the wet surface is sun-baked over and over. The window defogging mentioned before will tell you they have a majic potion which is actually availble from window cleaning supplier.

They will also tell you about their other majic solution that leaves no streaks to sun bake, but don't get me wrong these guy's (franchisees) are brainwashed by these Companies into believing all this.

Each one of those defoggers are franchised and they are told about these majic solutions formulated just for them and each franchisee gets to pay $20 a gal. for what is 99% water. They call this Wetter Water, well wetter water is available from people like ABC Window cleaning Supply as wetter water or slik. The window cleaning induxtry use this to lessen the wear on their squeegees and disapate water faster.

Both these products are sold in concentrates and 1 gallon of concentrate makes 1,200 gals of the majic potion. Oh yes, the concentrate sells for about $12 a gallon.

To remove the calcium deposit buy some calcium remover, mix it accordingly, if you have drilled a 3-5mm hole at the bottom of your window, put your solution into a garden pressure sprayer and jig a small metal tube bent at a angle, introduce into the hole and spray the inside of your thermopane a few time. The excess water will escape through the hole you drilled and suck up the balance of the liquid with a syringe.

Hope this helps.
Kent is offline  
Old 02-08-2009, 08:10 AM   #70
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 294
Rewards Points: 250
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


Well, this is a very old thread but I think worth keeping alive.

In manufacture the space between the glass is purged of air and typically Argon or Krypton is fed into that space and then plugged off. Those gases are void of oxygen. Oxygen holds moisture. If there is oxygen infiltration into the space between the two sheets of glass water molecules will condense and fogging occurs.
The desiccant is added to absorb some of the moisture when the seal between the pains begins to fail. The Manufacturer puts it there to help get them through the warranty period. In any event, It does not magically make moisture go away. It absorbs it until it becomes saturated. Then your windows begin to fog up. All windows will eventually fail.
Any attempt to repair a fogged window without taking it apart and resealing the pains is a waste of time. Just my opinion and the fix is is a DIY project.
My suggestion is this. Disassemble the window. Remove all the silicone on all glass surfaces. Clean the glass carefully and thoroughly and use a lint free cotton cloth. Use 4 - ” sq clear plastic spacers cut from plastic rods available at most hobby stores. (NOTE: Your windows may vary with the factory spacing between the pains so measure that before disassembly, you might need a 3/16” spacer, as an example.) With the glass on a flat surface place the spacers on all 4 corners of the pain. Apply a silicon bead around the entire edge using a quality clear “glass silicon”. Place the second pain on top any align the two. Once the silicon has set-up remove the 4 spacers. Silicon over 2 of the 4 holes. That leaves you an inlet/outlet hole.
I use the argon from my wire-feed welder to purge the window of O2. After 5 seconds I’ve pushed 98+% of the O2 out of the sandwiched pains and I apply silicon to first the outlet hole while I'm still purging and then the inlet.
This process is very close to how the window was made at the factory. Argon is available anywhere that sells Oxygen/Acetylene for your gas torch set. For $250-$300 in materials you can do 500 windows +.
I’ve used lengths of silicon “rod” that you cut to fit a window and just add a dab of the tube stuff at the corners. I’ll have to look who it was that sold these to me. The rods are cut to fit and they are firm enough to hold the pains apart without using any spacers.

It's worth noting that Argon is a noble gas and is not flamable.

Just my ol 2
__________________
Shamus

Last edited by Shamus; 02-08-2009 at 08:17 AM.
Shamus is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Shamus For This Useful Post:
Milton312 (08-30-2010)
Old 02-08-2009, 09:15 AM   #71
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,965
Rewards Points: 2,026
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMan View Post
Has anyone tried pulling a vacumn on the area between the panes with a HVAC pump? The lower pressure will boil off the water as it does when evacuating AC line sets.
What about driling the spacer?.
I wold not try using vacuum. This will make the two glass sheets bow in towards each other and they will shatter.
__________________
Forget super sized fries. The Washington Redskins could promote healthy eating with First Lady Obama by choosing a (red skinned) turnip for a mascot.
AllanJ is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 03:59 PM   #72
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


Yikes, I drilled out two holes. First I used a glass 3/16" bit, was going great until I got impatient and pushed too quickly and broke the glass. Next try I used a ceramic drill bit on my rotozip and went much slower and made a hole a little bigger than 1/8". I live in So. Cal and we have had a lot of rain. Sadly the window hasn't cleared up, it had a LOT of water streaks. Half the window has cleared but not the lower. I have some adhesive vents but haven't applied them yet. I am going to use packaging tape over the lower hole and put the vent on the top. Has anyone else done this and had success????? I've tried to contact Dan but because I haven't made 25 posts I can't PM him. Help!!!!!
sckarsten@juno.com is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 04:15 PM   #73
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


You need to use a variable spped dremel with a diamond bit ball end. Start drilling at 45 degree angle to set a mark and as the bit start going deeper straighten out your angle. You need a hole at the bottom and one at the opposing top. Do not block the holes with tape that defeats the purpose. What you want to create is air flow to dry out the window. Good luck

Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 03-09-2010 at 12:06 PM. Reason: removed advertising links
Kent is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 04:19 PM   #74
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


Kent, thanks, just checked out the site, couldn't read the forum???? How long should it take for the windows to clear out the water still on the inside panes of the glass. I did do opposing corners. I figured it out with the roto zip at an angle and sprayed water while I drilled. I went really slow and it worked. I guess I have to cover one hole and then put a two way valve (which I have) on the other hole. Have you done this procedure yet? I hope it works. I initially tried on a window that his hidden to practice on. I got the valves from GORE, but you need a resale number to use them. I am going to try them on remodeling jobs. Thanks.
sckarsten@juno.com is offline  
Old 02-23-2009, 01:51 PM   #75
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default

"Defogging" double-pane windows .... a gimmick??


I noticed after the rain that one of my drilled windows cleared out quickly. It looks like you can cover one hole and put a vent on the other hole. I think that is how the pros do it.

sckarsten@juno.com is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Casement versus double hung windows Sammy Carpentry 7 03-15-2007 08:21 AM
Double pane window installation asuka Carpentry 1 02-06-2007 02:42 AM
How do I install new windows? RickT Carpentry 17 10-12-2006 06:06 PM
Double Paned Windows cambece Remodeling 5 10-04-2006 03:31 PM
how to clean double pain windows DIYER33 General DIY Discussions 3 04-12-2005 11:53 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.