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Old 07-21-2010, 09:40 PM   #16
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


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Originally Posted by liquidvw View Post
This is exactly what I'm trying to do. For example tonight it is really cool outside, but hot as balls in the house, so the AC is on and I'm not really happy about that. If I just open the windows I don't get enough of cool air coming in.

With the WHF, I want to open my windows and pull the air from the outside through the house and into the attic. The issue with doing this is that the air in the attic needs somewhere to go. If there is no where to go, it will force its way back into the house. Not good.

So back to my question, anyone use any of these fans? or can you recommend something else. Yes, these fans are pricey, but I'm not sure if the less expensive ones will pull enough air.

Thanks.
That is exactly what I do, and not only is the cooler outside air being pulled into the house, but the 130 degree air int he attic is pushed out which is a plus.

The fan that I linked you to is what I use and love. It moves as much or more air than any of those fancy ones you linked to. It's a simpler design, but it works well and is cost effective.

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Old 07-21-2010, 09:42 PM   #17
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


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Is everyone on this post a member of Jersey Shore?
Ron
Only two of us are from NJ, I live in northern NJ.

Is your post meant to be a crack at us because your earlier posts were off base?
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Old 07-22-2010, 07:30 AM   #18
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


Thanks Proby. I'll check out that fan at home depot.

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Is everyone on this post a member of Jersey Shore?
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Ron, are you serious?
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:39 AM   #19
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


Proby doesn't know what he's talking about and the OP doesn't read the posts for the answers.
Where you're from is not the issue. The total lack understanding is.
You guys can now continue to play fan tag all you want.
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:53 AM   #20
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


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Originally Posted by Ron6519 View Post
Proby doesn't know what he's talking about and the OP doesn't read the posts for the answers.
Where you're from is not the issue. The total lack understanding is.
You guys can now continue to play fan tag all you want.
Ron
I don't read the posts? How do you know that? I'm looking for a whole house fan. You've suggested an attic fan. I dont want an attic fan. They are different. Read this. So with that said, I think it is you who don't read the posts. If you read my first post you would see that I'm interested in buying a whole house fan not an attic fan.
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:07 PM   #21
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


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Originally Posted by liquidvw View Post
I don't read the posts? How do you know that? I'm looking for a whole house fan. You've suggested an attic fan. I dont want an attic fan. They are different. Read this. So with that said, I think it is you who don't read the posts. If you read my first post you would see that I'm interested in buying a whole house fan not an attic fan.





Try reading it again.
I can't type any slower.
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:24 PM   #22
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


I've seen many of Ron6519's posts. In most of them, he is very dismissive. He comes into a thread and tells everyone the way it should be, completely disregarding their opinions and needs. Everyone else in the thread is wrong, he is right, always. Then when he sees that people are talking about a totally different system and he is in fact wrong, he makes personal attacks. This thread is a perfect example of that. He is a smart person and has some knowledge, but it's too bad that his ego gets in the way. It's best to just ignore him.
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Old 07-22-2010, 06:45 PM   #23
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


I'm aware of a few different type of whole house fans

#1 - friend has a whole house fan installed in gable portion of wall in room with cathderal ceiling
Fan kicks on & exhausts directly to the outside

#2 Fan built into ceiling, vents to the attic
Problem: If the air being pushed into the attic can't easily vent then it may not be effective
In addition air may be pushed back into the house via leaks from attic to the house

#3 Fan built into the gable in the attic, tied to a shutter that opens to the house
Fan turns on, shutters open & pull air from the house & exhaust it outside
Note: if the fan is too strong it will pull attic air & exhaust that too
This is not really a Con, as exhausting attic air will help cool the house too

I've never had a whole house fan, but have seen them installed & they work
We use multiple window fans to cool the house
Last house I had an attic fan on the roof to cool the large attic - unfinished 2nd floor

All I have..........
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:11 PM   #24
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


I’ll try to clear some of this up…..
Post #4 --- Ron said--- “Most efficient install is gable mounted as it eliminates all back pressure. You would install the shutter in the ceiling, centrally located. You need to be careful in the Spring and Fall as this unit will pull heating and hot water flue gasses into the house if you don't provide enough intake areas.
Ron “ This is an (attic gable mounted) LOCATION --- WHF with ducting to the louvers in the attic floor/room ceiling. Just what the OP is asking about…..


Ron has been saying the most efficient one is gable mounted in attic, with ducting to the ceiling mounted louvers, exhausting directly outside.


Proby said use a ceiling mounted ducted to attic. ------ Bad idea. Humans in a closed space create humidity: · One person’s breathing produces 1/4 cup of water per hour.
· Cooking for a family of four produces approximately five pints of water in 24 hours.
From: http://www.blueflame.org/datasheets/humidity.html
This is why bath fans can no longer be vented to the attic, only directly outside.


Why would you try to wet your roof framing and insulation by forcing moisture under air pressure into the attic? Similar to this: http://www.ronhungarter.com/black_mold.html


In Dave’s example, there are three different applications of the same fan.



Here are different types of WHFs:
Intermittent Whole House ventilation using Exhaust Fans (VIAQ 303.4.1)
�� Whole house fan located < 4’ from the interior grille have a sone rating on fan 1.5 or less.
�� Accessible 24 hr timer, set to operated 8 hours /day and tied to exhaust fan.
�� Label affixed to controls: “Whole House Ventilation. (See operating instructions)”.
�� Outdoor air inlets not less than 4 sq.in. in each habitable room.
�� Doors undercut minimum 1/2” where separated from exhaust source.
Exception: Exhaust only ventilation systems do not require outdoor air inlets if the home has a ducted
forced air heating system that communicates with all habitable rooms and the interior doors are
undercut to a minimum of 1/2” above finish floor covering.

Whole House Ventilation Integrated with Forced Air System (VIAQ 303.4.2)
�� Screened outdoor air inlet to return air plenum with motorized damper.
�� Outdoor air inlet duct connection to the return air stream located upstream of the forced-air blower.
�� Accessible 24 hour timer, set to operated 8 hours /day and tied in to furnace blower and motorized damper.
�� Label affixed to control: “Whole House Ventilation (See operating instructions)”.

Intermittent Whole House Ventilation Using Supply Fan (VIAQ 303.4.3)
�� Uses inline supply fan.
�� Outdoor air must be filtered before it is delivered to habitable rooms.
�� Outdoor inlet located downstream of blower when connected to the supply side.
�� Outdoor inlet minimum 4’ upstream when connected to the return side.
�� Accessible 24 hour timer, set to operated 8 hours /day and tied in to the inline supply fan.
�� Label affixed to control: “Whole House Ventilation (See operating instructions)”.

Whole House Ventilation Using a Heat Recovery Ventilation System (VIAQ 303.4.4)
�� All ducts must be minimum 6” diameter.
�� Balancing dampers are installed on the inlet and exhaust side.
�� Supply ducts in conditioned space upstream of the heat exchanger insulated to minimum R4.
�� Accessible 24 hour timer, set to operated 8 hours /day and tied in to the inline supply fan.
�� Label affixed to control: “Whole House Ventilation (See operating Instruction)”.

From: http://www.mybuildingpermit.com/Insp...0checklist.pdf


Proby #7:
3,400 sqft is a pretty big house, if you have soffit and ridge vents as well as gable vents, I am going to take a guess and say that you probably have enough attic ventilation to allow the fan to run properly. If you install the fan and later find that it's not moving enough air because the attic doesn't have enough ventilation, you can always install a larger, less restrictive gable vent fairly easily” ------- I have no idea if your current system is enough, you do the math and compare the soffit (intake) and exhaust (ridge) vents: http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/pro...it-specs.shtml

Close the gable vent up as it is short-circuiting the ridge vent: Page #606: http://books.google.com/books?id=Z8a...0vents&f=false

Proby #15: It's the same air that would be naturally flowing thru the attic via passive ventilation. ------- Not at all. This is indoor air, carrying more moisture from the house air. In addition, it is forced air--- how many times more than the passive system in place?

I’m still trying to prove Ron wrong, haven’t done it yet…….lol. (He knows his stuff!)

Be safe, Gary
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:37 AM   #25
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


GBR in WA, the WHF that mounts to the ceiling and exhausts air into the attic is by far the most commonly installed, at least around here. That is what the thread starter is looking for, he said that multiple times. So when Ron said that attic ventilation was irrelevant, he was wrong. When Ron said that I do not know what I am talking about, he was wrong. When Ron tried to attack us about our location, he was wrong.

A gable mounted fan with a shutter system in the ceiling is still going to be pulling the air and humidity from the home into the attic, will it not? That is the system that Ron is pushing. It might be better in some ways, but that does not change the fact that all of Ron's other statements have been off base.

Also, I think you need to go back and read his posts again because he did NOT say to use ducting to connect the gable fan to the ceiling mounted shutter system.
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:26 AM   #26
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


Thanks GBR. Some good information. I don't doubt that Ron knows his stuff. But I still dont see where he mentioned ducting the gable mounted fan to the shudder in the hallway ceiling as you suggested.

He said
Quote:
Most efficient install is gable mounted as it eliminates all back pressure. You would install the shutter in the ceiling, centrally located.
After reading this again, this appears to me that Ron is suggesting an attic fan with a hole in hallway ceiling.

I like the idea of using a duct in between the two. I would still be left with a hot attic, but all the air from my house would be pushed outside. Good stuff. Thanks GBR.
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:43 AM   #27
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With a high cfm ceiling mounted WHF, any humidity that was pushed into the attic from the house would be cleared out quickly. The high humidity in the air tomorrow that will be naturally sucked up into your soffit vents will be worse (still nothing to worry about).
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:58 PM   #28
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Post #4: "gable mounted as it eliminates all back pressure." Read this carefully.

1. Back pressure------- can only be caused if the forced air is exhausting to an attic. NOT to the outside.

2. Gable mount -------- means outside exhaust. Not attic/ceiling mount.

3. Ron correctly said be careful of gas appliances-- HWT, dryer, furnace.
“Be cautious when operating these large exhaust fans. Open windows throughout the house to prevent a powerful and concentrated suction in one location. If enough ventilation isn't provided, the fans can cause a backdraft in your furnace, water heater or gas-fired dryer, pulling combustion products such as carbon monoxide into your living space.”

4. If you do exhaust into the attic, at least: “Attic ventilation will usually need to be increased to exhaust the fan's air outdoors. You'll need 2–4 times the normal area of attic vents, or about one square foot of net free area for every 750 cubic feet per minute of fan capacity.” http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=12357
I can’t quite see from here how much ventilation is in your attic……….


In WA State, we are required to exhaust WHF outdoors, check with your State Code from the LOCAL Building Inspector, you may be required to do so also.

303.4.1.4 Exhaust Ducts: All exhaust ducts shall
terminate outside the building. Exhaust ducts shall be
equipped with back-draft dampers. All exhaust ducts in
unconditioned spaces shall be insulated to a minimum of
R-4. From: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...oWh6MvILRdFQHQ


Post #25: A gable mounted fan with a shutter system in the ceiling is still going to be pulling the air and humidity from the home into the attic, will it not? That is the system that Ron is pushing. It might be better in some ways, but that does not change the fact that all of Ron's other statements have been off base. ------ All of Ron’s statements are dead on. He might have explained it a little more to a DIY’er, but any professional would know: Gable mount fan + ceiling shutters = exterior exhaust with ducting. (Otherwise it exhaust into attic----- no reason for the GABLE MOUNTED).

If the fans on the gable and the shutters are in the ceiling ------ THINK about it a minute….. Who would mount fan shutters in the ceiling without ducting to the attic gable fan? You would short-circuit your other exhaust vents and suck air from the soffits before the hole in the ceiling.



Post #27: READ my answer again on carrying the extra moisture generated from people and utilities in the house to be deposited in the attic. I would worry.



Be safe, Gary
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:29 PM   #29
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Apparently you are still arguing that Ron said something that he didn't...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
Post #4: "gable mounted as it eliminates all back pressure." Read this carefully.

1. Back pressure------- can only be caused if the forced air is exhausting to an attic. NOT to the outside.
Gable mounted eliminates back pressure because you no longer have the possibility of not having enough ventilation in the attic to properly exhaust the air from a ceiling mounted WHF.

Quote:
In WA State, we are required to exhaust WHF outdoors,
That's a shame, all those great WHF's are unavailable to the people of your state. The vast majority of the WHF's that keep consumers happen... Take a look at the 3 different links the thread starter posted, those are just some of the great WHF's that people have been using and loving.


Quote:
All of Ron’s statements are dead on. He might have explained it a little more to a DIY’er, but any professional would know: Gable mount fan + ceiling shutters = exterior exhaust with ducting. (Otherwise it exhaust into attic----- no reason for the GABLE MOUNTED).
This part of your post is just clearly wrong. Not only is saying that Ron is dead on wrong, but also your generalization that all high CFM gable mounted fans are ducted. Maybe it's like that on your side of the world, but it's definitely not like that everywhere, so stating falsehoods as fact is not going to help. I've seen many systems in which a larger CFM gable mount fans (too large for the attic alone, these are purposely made larger to also work as a WHF) are installed with no duct work and the motorized shutter system is mounted in the ceiling. I have troubleshooted these and I have wired up new (I don't generally install them, just do the wiring). However, as I said earlier, most people simply install the oversized gable fan and open the attic door or pull down the stairs a bit when they use the fan, instead of investing in an automatic shutter system. This type of system works very well, my customer's are always happy with them, as they are with the ceiling mounted type we were talking about earlier.

I work in attics a LOT, I see many WHF systems. I have never seen a gable mounted fan with duct work to the interior. It might be optimal for some people, especially those with extra money, but it is not a necessity and it most certainly is not the only way to do it, as you tried to say it was above.

I came here for help on re-doing my shower. Some people say you have to seal the wonderboard, some people say it might help but it's not necessary, some people say it's not needed at all. Sure, sealing it won't hurt and is probably the best way, but there ARE other ways that still work, professionals still use just wonderboard without sealing it and have great success. Just because there is a perfect way (at a price), it doesn't make the other ways any less viable.

Quote:
If the fans on the gable and the shutters are in the ceiling ------ THINK about it a minute….. Who would mount fan shutters in the ceiling without ducting to the attic gable fan? You would short-circuit your other exhaust vents and suck air from the soffits before the hole in the ceiling.
Many people, as I explained it above. The gable mounted fan sucks air from both the attic vents as well as the house windows. It pulls cool air into both the attic and house.

Quote:
Post #27: READ my answer again on carrying the extra moisture generated from people and utilities in the house to be deposited in the attic. I would worry.
First I would upgrade your bath fan and make sure it exhausts outside, then I would start using your range vent hood more often. If you are that worried about the moisture from your household being sucked up and then blown out your attic, I bet you'll freak out tomorrow when it's supposed to be 100% humidity outside and all that outside air is going to run up into your attic

A high CFM WHF will get rid of that little bit of moisture from your house right quick. A bathroom exhaust fan is a different story because it's just dumping that moisture right into the attic in which it's staying because there is no air flow. Bath fans are usually less than 100CFM while WHF's are around 5-6,000CFM which will exchange the air in the attic MUCH quicker.

I find it amusing that you will go to bat for your friend and speculate what you think he was trying to say just to defend him. The fact is that you can go back and read what was clearly written and see that he was wrong in saying that "Attic ventilation is irrelavent to the operation of a whole house fan." It was later explained to him that both the OP and I were speaking about the ceiling mounted type which attic ventilation is extremely relevant. Instead of admitting that he was wrong on that detail, he decided to attack us on a personal level. And then after it was explained to him again that his ideas are not what the OP wanted, he decided to attack yet again.

Sorry for messing with the good old boys club...




Last edited by Proby; 07-23-2010 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:32 AM   #30
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Can you recommend a whole house fan?


WTF? The last few post should be deleted for not adding any valuable information to the original post.

How about a BIG ASS FAN?

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