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Old 02-26-2009, 10:56 AM   #1
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Basement is Framed- Thanks Guys


So after asking a bunch of questions and getting some great information from you guys:

I moved a dryer vent
Swapped out a window
Framed the basement

You guys walked me through this and I just want to thank you. What an awesome resource this is. Here are some before and after pics.
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:02 AM   #2
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Basement is Framed- Thanks Guys


Now I'm going to being a pain in the behind on the electrical forum. I need recessed lighting, plugs and switches. OH BOY!!!!
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Last edited by mjkpainting; 02-26-2009 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:28 AM   #3
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Thanks for posting. Glad to hear you've cleared the first hurdle in your project.

Plenty of good help to be found in the electric subforum!
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Old 02-26-2009, 01:19 PM   #4
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Did you use a pressure treated sole plate? What are you doing for insulation and do not use a vapor barrier in CT.. I live in Sandy Hook, CT...vapor barriers are not good in our zone. figure at least one recessed light per 50 sq ft of space. Use IC cans since you still will trap a lot of heat in these joists.
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Old 02-26-2009, 03:19 PM   #5
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Basement is Framed- Thanks Guys


Oh my gosh!!! Look at that! All your2 x 4's went and got bowed. That's a shame. Going to have to tear it all out now.

Nice job, MJKpainting.
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Old 02-26-2009, 03:48 PM   #6
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Well done! I'm with Bob though as to the PT bottom plates?? It's kind of hard to tell these days. Some of the treated isn't as green as it used top be. (Hard to tell from the pic.) You're past the first hurdle.
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Did you use a pressure treated sole plate? What are you doing for insulation and do not use a vapor barrier in CT.. I live in Sandy Hook, CT...vapor barriers are not good in our zone. figure at least one recessed light per 50 sq ft of space. Use IC cans since you still will trap a lot of heat in these joists.
I would use a vapor barrier where ever you live. But I should be on the backside of those studs. Then insulate between the studs to keep warm air from touching cold.
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Old 02-27-2009, 05:39 AM   #8
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A basement wall if below grade must be able to dry to the inside of the room. A vapor barrier will prevent this. Read the science, not old wife's tales. Basement systems are different in different climates.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:17 AM   #9
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You can't tell by the pictures but:

I did the right thing like you guys said and used PT for the sole plate. I figured if I'm going to do it I should do it right.

What would you guys reccommend me doing for insulation??? I have the walls double coated in dry lock and was planning on insulating. What R value should I use?????


Any suggestions??????
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:30 AM   #10
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Once you finish a basement it must be treated with the same R-Value as other walls. R-13 is bare minimum. But science has shown basement walls still will be wet at some point. Batt insulation is the cheapest and many people will use it. But it is the poorest selection you can make. Best is spray foam. I would recommend 2" foam.
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Mariani View Post
A basement wall if below grade must be able to dry to the inside of the room. A vapor barrier will prevent this. Read the science, not old wife's tales. Basement systems are different in different climates.
I did a continuing education class recently with Mike Gorman, and he covered this in some detail. Of course this is just from one source, but I was surprised at the many applications (not just basements) where the long- standing building codes concerning insulation seem to be in complete contradiction to the laws of physics.

I guess it's a monumental task for each locality to devise their own individual codes according to their geographical and temperate positions. I know, around here, you can simply cross a bridge to our South, and it seems like you are in another region of the country, climate-wise.

But codes are codes, and wrong or not, we're stuck with complying with them.
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:56 AM   #12
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So what did the guy say?

The way I have always done it was vapor barrier against the wall, then studs, then insluation. You could put up ridgid foam insulation against the walls then stud I guess. But you need to seperate the cold zone from the warm zone. You are trying to prevent cold (moist air) from touching warm air.

Its the same way your cold glass of beer sweats on your table. When the warmer air is cooled by the glass it condenses. The same thing will happen to your studs and drywall if you dont inslolate and put up a vapor barrier.

VAPOR, MOISTURE VAPOR, VAPOR BARRIER... geesh.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:09 AM   #13
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If I'm doing Bat insulation, is it easier to rough the electrical wiring first and then insulate or vice versa????

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Old 02-27-2009, 10:31 AM   #14
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Wire first, for sure.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:44 AM   #15
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Electrical is done before insulation.
If you care to understand the science then read all the new research on buildingscience.com Or just redo it in a few years. We just talked to someone at a trade show this week that was doing basement systems. The showed me the statistics of how many people are having issues selling their house, since in some areas the inspection includes looking for mold in basements, since as posted some codes are still outdated and require it being done wrong. Keep in mind that the south and drier zones have to deal with a much less issue as we do in CT.
Jcahill4.. good analogy with the glass of water. If warm air hits the cold foundation (which is what we are dealing with) condensation will occur on the concrete wall. And you are correct you need to dry the wall to the inside of the basement. by placing a sealed extruded or expanded polystyrene rigid insulation with taped seams you keep the concrete wall warm enough for no condensation to occur. Water also moves through the outside below grade wall by capillary action. The foam is your only way to make a capillary break and keep the wall warm enough. Still need to dry the wall. I leave a 1-2" space between the outer wall and the stud wall. Use a sill insulation under the pressure treated sill to allow air flow.

WilliT.. codes do not call for a vapor barrier. They require a vapor retarder. Poly was a perm of .01 the vapor retarder called for by code is 1 perm. Poly is ten times what is code and does not allow the wall to ever dry out. Poly is only to be used in extreme cold climates that do not have these hot humid summers we have in CT.

The vapor retarder is to be on the warm side of the wall. Not inside the studs but on the room side of the studs. Kraft face insulation will provide this as will latex paint. (not oil)

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