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Old 07-27-2010, 12:24 PM   #1
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Anchoring into retaining wall


We have old concrete retaining walls at our condo building that were cracked and looking pretty dilapidated so we had them refinished. The contractor put metal mesh over the walls and then put a skin coat of concrete over that.

I would like to install a couple hose brackets on the walls, but I am unsure of what type of anchors to use.

Should I use tapcons? Sleeve anchors? I worry about the possibility of there being a hollow space between the old wall and the new finish, I don't want to drill and have it crack on me.

Recommendations?

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Old 07-27-2010, 02:56 PM   #2
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Anchoring into retaining wall


Proby, no anchor expert here, so please accept this as brainstorming rather than advice, but...

my first though is that while I would normally be inclined to use a sleeve anchor, I think that I would lean toward a tapcon in this case, because since the cracks are now concealed, you won't know exactly where they are, and I think that a tapcon permits a better "feel" of what you are into than other types of anchors may.

Secondly, is there a way to support the weight from the ground, or over top of the wall, i.e. a treated 2x4, for example, standing upright, tapconed to the wall, so that a significant portion of the weight is transferred directly to the slab or whatever, or a couple pieces of of aluminum flat stock bent to hook over the top of the wall, perhaps with a tapcon in each one to take out any wiggle at the brackets.

Again, simply a couple of thoughts.

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Old 07-28-2010, 03:37 PM   #3
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Anchoring into retaining wall


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Proby, no anchor expert here, so please accept this as brainstorming rather than advice, but...

my first though is that while I would normally be inclined to use a sleeve anchor, I think that I would lean toward a tapcon in this case, because since the cracks are now concealed, you won't know exactly where they are, and I think that a tapcon permits a better "feel" of what you are into than other types of anchors may.

Secondly, is there a way to support the weight from the ground, or over top of the wall, i.e. a treated 2x4, for example, standing upright, tapconed to the wall, so that a significant portion of the weight is transferred directly to the slab or whatever, or a couple pieces of of aluminum flat stock bent to hook over the top of the wall, perhaps with a tapcon in each one to take out any wiggle at the brackets.

Again, simply a couple of thoughts.
If there's a, " possibility of there being a hollow space between the old wall and the new finish", the mason did a lousy job and the covering layer will break off and fall to the ground. Purely cosmetic as the lead sleeve or masonary anchor should be sunk into the wall, not just the coating
Both tapcons and lead sleeves require a hole drilled prior to intalling either material. The lead anchor, in my opinion, would hold better then a tapcon, especially if what you're hanging is going to move.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:42 PM   #4
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Anchoring into retaining wall


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If there's a, " possibility of there being a hollow space between the old wall and the new finish", the mason did a lousy job
I don't know what type of job the mason did, which is why I want to avoid any issues.

I know what a lead anchor is and a sleeve anchor as well, but I am not sure what a lead sleeve anchor is.

I've attached images, the first one is what we call a lead anchor and the second is what we call a sleeve anchor. Different areas call things like this different things so it's hard to relate it over the internet.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:07 PM   #5
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Anchoring into retaining wall


The lead anchor I was referring to is like a plastic anchor, only made of lead.
The skim coat isn't relevant as the anchor will be buried in the solid wall. The only issue you will have is the skim coats thickness as you don't want to rely on any part of it to hold the anchor. You might well move up a size to make sure you have enough ,"hold" in the wall.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:16 PM   #6
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Anchoring into retaining wall


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The lead anchor I was referring to is like a plastic anchor, only made of lead.
Hmmm, I don't think I've ever seen those. You just insert the anchor and then drive a screw into it like a plastic anchor? I don't think that will go deep enough. I have some 4" Tapcons that I was thinking about using, I assume they will go far enough thru the skim coat and into the wall to hold.
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Old 07-28-2010, 05:41 PM   #7
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Anchoring into retaining wall


Ron, I agree completely with what you said. My only point, and I see that I did not necessarily convey it clearly, is that regardless of how good of a job the mason did, I assume that the original cracks and dilapidation are no longer visible, and the issue that I see with any type of expansion type fastener is that they generally have a prescribed minimal distance from existing cracks, fractures, etc. Point being that when you tighten, and do not know where such deficiencies were, are you one turn, two turns, or X number of inch/pounds from the hole opening up. Again, no expert, but do have experience with similar anchors in larger, industrial applications. On the other hand, I am sure that tapcons are not without their own peculiarities, so if all things are equal, I will go back to my opening comment, and say that I too would be inclined to use an anchor as Ron described.
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:23 PM   #8
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Anchoring into retaining wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by Proby View Post
I don't know what type of job the mason did, which is why I want to avoid any issues.

I know what a lead anchor is and a sleeve anchor as well, but I am not sure what a lead sleeve anchor is.

I've attached images, the first one is what we call a lead anchor and the second is what we call a sleeve anchor. Different areas call things like this different things so it's hard to relate it over the internet.
The sleeve anchor is fine, the lead anchor in the picture is a caulk-in and probably won't work. there is a similar product called a hollow-set drop-in that will work, but is overkill for your application.
the advantage of the sleeve anchor ( aka Lok-Bolt, Dyna-Bolt) is you don't have to drill a giant hole to use it.

you might try to just use screws and plastic anchors. they are cheap and if the block isn't too bad or is grout filled they might do the trick. if they don't hold you are literally out $1.00 and can try something else. if you drill into voids you could even use toggle bolts

the best solution for a long lasting connection is to drill all the way through the wall and just use a long bolt, carriage bolt, or even threaded rod with a nut and washers on both sides. whatever you chose, try to get it in stainless steel if your budget allows
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Last edited by Mr Chips; 07-28-2010 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:20 PM   #9
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Anchoring into retaining wall


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Originally Posted by Proby View Post
Hmmm, I don't think I've ever seen those. You just insert the anchor and then drive a screw into it like a plastic anchor? I don't think that will go deep enough. I have some 4" Tapcons that I was thinking about using, I assume they will go far enough thru the skim coat and into the wall to hold.
I installed 2 hose reels on brick walls with 1 1/2" lead anchors in 1992 using 4, # 12, 1 1/2" stainless steel sheet metal screws. These hose reels have 100 feet of hose on them and get pulled out at least once a week and rolled back. Never had an issue with them. If the wall was as yours, I 'd have gone up to 2" anchors and screws if the skim was up to 1/2".
You shouldn't have an issue with the 4" tapcons either.
Ron
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:29 PM   #10
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Anchoring into retaining wall


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Originally Posted by Ron6519 View Post
I installed 2 hose reels on brick walls with 1 1/2" lead anchors in 1992 using 4, # 12, 1 1/2" stainless steel sheet metal screws. These hose reels have 100 feet of hose on them and get pulled out at least once a week and rolled back. Never had an issue with them. If the wall was as yours, I 'd have gone up to 2" anchors and screws if the skim was up to 1/2".
You shouldn't have an issue with the 4" tapcons either.
Ron
The big problem is it sounds like you are not sure what the wall is actually made of. If it's poured concrete, you are money, and there are 30 or 40 things that will work well. If not, Brick is one thing, hollow block is a different animal. All depends on if the block is hollow or grout filled. Also depends on the quality of the CMU. Tapcons probably won't get enough bite in hollow block, and because the wall has been coated, I assume you aren't 100% sure where the motar joints are. Plastic bantam plugs will expand better than lead plugs, and are a much better choice for hollow block, IMO
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:34 PM   #11
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Anchoring into retaining wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by Proby View Post
I worry about the possibility of there being a hollow space between the old wall and the new finish, I don't want to drill and have it crack on me.

Recommendations?
That's a good reason to use a sleeve anchor. all the expansion takes place on in the "tail" of the anchor, so you won't be putting any force on the new finish.

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