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Alarm System

3K views 22 replies 8 participants last post by  RM575 
#1 ·
Our home is about 15 years old and we're getting ready to replace all of the windows. I wired the house for an alarm system during construction and all of the windows have contacts tied in to our Ademco Vista 20 system.

Since it would be very difficult to try to use the existing wiring/contacts with the new windows, I would like to see if it's possible to use wireless contacts with this system.

Is this possible?
 
#3 · (Edited)
Talk to your security company. Explain what you're doing. It's possible since you're a long-time customer, they may upgrade you to a totally wireless system for little or no cost to you. Of course, you may need to extend your contract with them - their profits are in the monitoring service, not the hardware.
 
#5 ·
They will just remove the old contacts, since most are held on either by screws or double stick tape. If glued on, you will have to purchase new contacts. Just make sure that you get the right ones, since some systems use Normally Open contact, others use Normally closed, depending on the system.

As for not being monitored, most systems are beyond their age and technology after 10 years. If you do replace with wireless, you then have to deal with batteries in all sensors, and the costs are more. http://www.smarthome.com has quite a few different systems, and also the parts on their site.
 
#7 ·
Instead of worrying about the windows, go with motion sensors.

And since this is inmonitored, add some ip cameras along with a DVR that has Internet connectivity

The have some good cameras with motion features tha when combined with software will notify your smartphone when it detects motion. You can even watch it live.
 
#8 ·
I can add to that, that I switched from using mangocam.com for a cloud dvr, to using a Lenovo ix2 NAS (Network Attached Storage) for my camera storage. There are two apps that are available for that series from Lenovo, but they are only compatible with the Axis cameras, and Panasonic, and a couple of others.

So any IP camera that is not on the list for Mindtree secure, or Axis, you are stuck using FTP to load the images to the NAS. I had to play around with the motion detection settings on all three of my cameras, due to two of them were getting to the point that they had uploaded over 32gb of data. Figured out what was going on, and got it down to around 400mb of data a day.

I would still if I ever get around to it, use Blue Iris, but that will mean running a dedicated machine for it, which I got rid of our old desktop, because I never thought of keeping it, so later on, may go with a small form factor or all in one unit, to run Blue Iris, if I end up wanting more features, but right now, just uploading any motion to the NAS is working.

The unit is 2TB mirrored in Raid 1, and if need be, I can always change over to 3TB drives if needing more storage, but right now I am set with what I have.

As for motion sensors on an alarm system, since the OP uses a non-monitored system, really it is no better than no unit at all, because the police are not going to respond to you calling them, telling them that your alarm on your home went off, unless you have video proof of a live feed, when you get the alarm, so with ddawg's suggestion, the two together work better.

But personally a dog is the best alarm system you can have. Our neighbors have stated, that when a vehicle pulls up in our drive, or the neighbor to the North of us, which their drive is within two feet of our house, our Golden goes nuts.

We also have the neighbor across the street has a German Shepard, who parents are retired police dogs, and he will even go nuts, if someone enters our drive, or is even parked in front of his house.

As they state, alarms and locks only keep the honest people out, and are only as good as the person who installed them, and uses them.
 
#9 ·
Thank you for all the great input.

I have two motion sensors that cover about 2/3 of the downstairs area. In our aluminum windows, we had about 20 normally closed contacts. We're replacing with vinyl.

Sounds like the general recommendation is to replace the window contacts with cameras, but because of the layout of our house, I would probably need about 5 cameras to have a good amount of coverage.

The downside to this is that since I travel occasionally, my wife likes to be able to turn the alarm on when she's at home. This works well since she can disable the motion sensor and just rely on the door/window contacts.
 
#10 ·
Cul....good reasons....but like Greg pointed out....a dog will do more than anything else.....and....when someone is home....bad guys don't bother...

For night time I would suggest motion sensing lights. If someone walks in the yard where they should not be...the light comes on.

Additionally, using something like Greg was talking about would actually let her see what is going on around the house. Feed the signal to a second input on your TV and she can look at the views in a PIP.

I'm currently working on a home grown DVR setup...one for the surveillance cameras and one for TV/movie recording. I found one software package that will handle the sequencing and recording of multiple cameras. I intend to setup a Win8 box with a couple of TB drives and a SSD for the OS. Another option is to use an NAS router like Greg is using but it would fall short of what I want....plus I'm not going to be upload to a cloud.
 
#11 ·
I have three cameras. One that covers the front, that looks out our front living room window, one that covers the back, that is on our garage, and the other that covers the hall entrance, and living room area. Of course, you would have to be really stupid to try to get into any of the houses in my neighborhood, even with most of us having dogs. There are some that have personal handguns, and will not hesitate to use them, if you try to get in, when they are home.

It is more like Russian Roulette in our neighborhood, because the crooks know that we protect our homes, but do not know which ones have the guns in them, because we do not advertise with NRA stickers, or signs that state the premise is protected by a licensed gun owner.

I have two signs on my house. One that states the house is protected by 24hr video surveillance, the other that states there is an alarm system in there. Again, Russian Roulette, because those risking it, also are watched by the workers across the street, that work at the sub shop, and are always outback, and can see anything from there, to down the street past our house.

As for your situation, it is up to you what you do, but five cameras is overkill, the alarm is again only as good as you maintaining it, and responding to the alarm when it goes off, or having someone go over there and check it out if it goes off.
 
#12 ·
ddawg, I can just pull our cameras up either on our iphones or ipad, or even my laptop to see the live feed. Lights, we use solar powered on the front of our house, and back on our garage, which will put out enough light, that the person will think twice. Also our backdoor has a LED motion light, with a low LUM "Nightlight" that is on all night, and then jumps to a higher LUM along with the two spots on it, and then we have the two garages on either side, that can pick up motion in our backyard, so that anyone in any of the three yards, have ended up thinking twice, because we have caught them trying to cut through the backyard of the neighbor to my left, and when our Golden was out back, just laying in wait, the person took off running, when she started to growl that "You do not even want to think about coming this way."
 
#15 ·
This is one site of many selling alarm hardware....spend some time and browse the equipment...it starts to give you and idea of what you can do.

Just to explain one thing...NAS means Network Attached Storage. It's sort of like a scaled down home server. Take a router (including wireless)....give it a couple of USB ports or SATA ports...a few smarts...and you now have a and Ethernet router/switch/wireless access point that also has 1 or more hard drives on it. It means anyone who is allowed to connect to your home network can now have a shared hard drive.

In Greg's case, he is using that NAS as the storage for his security camera's instead of a DVR.

Each NAS has certain features...some of which allow him to also upload data to an external drive (cloud).

Be aware that for remote access your going to need a DNS (Domain Name Server). Some camera companies give you one for free...in other cases you have to pay a monthly fee.

Getting smart phone access typically requires a subscription to a service that will make it available.

It's sort of like the DVR menu you get for cable or dish...your actually paying for that menu. If you try to hook up a DVR without cable or sat service...no menu. You can go with a TIVO...but you need to pay a monthly subscription to get that menu.

Greg knows more about the internet side of it than I do...I'm still learning.

Here is the link to one program that I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy...but I wouldn't mind Greg's input on it..

http://www.argussurveillance.com/

One last thing.....

For now I'm using the Lorex wireless setup. I have two wireless camera's and a monitor. The monitor looks like one of those digital picture frames...but has a SD memory card in it (16g). What I like about it is that it's easy to install and the cameras have sound. As soon as I'm done with construction I'll be installing wired cameras along with the DVR....the wireless cameras are going to get re-tasked...one will go up into the 2nd floor of the garage so we can keep tabs on the kids and the other will go to the front door.

Here is a sample of how well that camera works...this was about a year and a half ago...we got burg'd before Xmas...after that I bought the Lorex. Then a few weeks later we noticed that our recycling stash was going down...this is what it caught...note...this happened at 8:15 in the morning...I edited out the 3-5 min he was back there before my wife realized what was going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL8C-7UrMNg
 
#18 ·
Alarm wire can usually be spliced. So it should be trivial enough to just wire up new contacts to the old wires. You might want to call a local alarm installer to ask for a quote to do the work. They'd have all the beanies to make the splices and the know-how to install the new stuff in ways that'll work properly. You don't need to change out your whole system for something like this.
 
#19 ·
I think you should really consider trying to retrofit your new windows with hardwired contacts. Are the new windows the same style? Are you changing from metal frame to vinyl? Are your magnetic contacts currently concealed in the window channel or frame? Are your contacts on the surface of the window frame? What is it, exactly, that makes it difficult to install new contacts?

If you want to go wireless, you can add a Honeywell 5881 receiver or change out one of your keypads to a 6160RF. Then you can use any style 5800 series wireless sensor. But, this will be more costly and you may not need to do wireless. If you add a 5881 receiver, be mindful of your total current draw on that panel as it only supports 600ma.
 
#20 ·
I can't see why the sensors can't be temporary removed and just readded after. Just tell the window installers to leave the wiring in tact so you can readd the sensors. Depending on how it's installed they may not even have to cut them. Depends if the holes are through the windows or not.

Though going with a choke zone motion sensor works too. Window sensors can be defeated. Smash detectors can be defeated with glass cutting tool /suction cups, and ones that detect a window opening can be defeated by just breaking the window and not opening it.

I have an alarm system and only put sensors on the doors, then I got a motion sensor in garage, living room and basement. If they go through the window it wont trip the sensor but once they're in the motion sensor range then it will trigger. I also have mine set to be silent that way there's better chance of getting caught as it gives more time for police to get there.
 
#21 ·
In most cases, you can fit new contacts on new windows without much trouble. Yes, the window installers can drill a hole for the wire to drop thru. Usually, you have to cut the contact off to get the wire thru. But, first make sure the new window will accommodate a contact before you drill, and that drilling into the window frame will not void a warranty.

Sometimes, you have to move the contact around a bit to apply it to a new window. For example, if a contact was originally installed in a window channel and now the new window will not allow room for that configuration, you might be able to mount the contact on the surface of the window frame. Adding a length of wire as needed is a simple task. I would solder if the wire splice will be buried in the wall or inaccessible.

Contacts on perimeter windows are better than having just the doors and motions. You can vent a window in the summer time and still have it protected. At night, in the stay mode, your motion detectors are usually disarmed. So, if all you have are contacts on doors, you have very little protection.
 
#22 ·
The reason why I was going away from the hardwired contacts was that several of our windows were reconfigured. After the install, 7 of the windows don't have wire in the vicinity (some fixed windows that didn't have an alarm are now single hung windows and vice versa).

I could reconnect the contact on the other windows, but I can't get the alarm wire to these seven windows without some major work going through studs and dry wall.

If cost is the only drawback to going with a wireless system, it's worth it to me right now.

Are there other drawbacks?
 
#23 ·
You can do a hybrid, wireless and hardwire if you like. So, if you can easily fit some of the windows with hardwired contacts and not the others, then do wireless on the ones you can't. Cost is one consideration. But, if it's not a big problem, then wireless will do just fine. Honeywell has a host of wireless sensors, some that are so small they almost disappear.

Power draw of all the devices you have should be a concern too. Are you adding a 5881 receiver? That draws 60 ma. Add up all the devices that draw aux power current, while in the alarm state, not at idle, and see if you exceed the Vista 20's limit of 600ma. If you do, then you might consider adding a power supply or changing out a keypad to the 6160RF. Look at your installation manual to guide you when adding keypads, zone expanders, motions, a receiver, etc.
 
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