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bkboggy 05-28-2011 10:48 PM

Wrought Iron + Stone Fence
This is not much of a DIY question, but I really had no idea where to post. Maybe you guys can help. I have a contractor team that will build me a wrought iron + fake stone (looks pretty darn real though) wall. It'll be approximately 16-24" (depending on pricing) of stone from the ground and the rest will be wrought iron up to 5' in height. I thought 5' will be the best look... It'll be a concrete wall with fake stone panels attached to it. The result looks very real. It'll be approximately 165' of fence. As far as width of the fence... I think one of the options was either a 14 or 16"? Not sure. There will also be 4 gates. One 22' driveway gate, one 12' second small driveway gate, 12' split gate for the backyard area and a small... like 5' side gate. Anyone knows what some of those things cost? That way I know I don't get ripped off. I live in San Bernardino County, California.

epson 05-28-2011 11:34 PM

The only way you will know what these gates are going to cost is go to at least three ornamental metal fabricators pick out some designs, material, finish, hardware and make sure installation is included in price. Also make sure you’re consistent with your design, material, finish and hardware selection with all three so you can compare apples with apples…

user1007 05-29-2011 06:23 AM

Exactly and if they are coordinating the concrete pour and the faux stone veneer make sure you have an understanding of what will be done with all that.

That stone veneer material does not look all that bad from a distance I guess. But be careful. Unless it is really bonded to the concrete surface so water or temperature changes cannot easily influence spaces and gaps. It will peel loose over time and look rather silly.

Faux finishes out of context scare me.

What makes you want a stone look? Would not a "really nicely finished", colored if you want, acid etched or whatever concrete wall with the metal fence look as gorgeous. Just my opinion but it sounds like you are over designing this "look" and stone walls, as I remember, were never native to San Bernadino?

Take a look at this website and some of the things one can pull off with concrete in the hands of the right finishers.

I am not trying to talk you out of this but do think it through. And Jeeze Louise you live in one of the concrete finishing parts of the country. There must be at least five really good concrete guys living just on your block?

mustangmike3789 05-29-2011 07:19 AM

ive seen this done not too far from my house. it looked good from a distance until all of the stone panels started coming loose like mentioned above. stamped concrete is a good option to look into for the stone look. you can do a vertical overlay or have it cast in place.

bkboggy 06-07-2011 02:32 AM

Hmm, I didn't even know they could do that. That's amazing. I gotta ask my guy if he can do it. It would probably be much cheaper than having them build a concrete wall and then put panels on top of it.

Here are the current specs:

144' total feet
16 columns
16 column caps
5' high total on fence and columns
16" concrete wall with 2" caps
iron from then on to make 5' (well... iron is going to start within the wall itself to make it last longer)
pickets on top
stone plates on the concrete (452 sf)
stone plats on the columns (not sure what the sf is on this one)
one 12' driveway gate, one 22' driveway gate
one 12' double swing gate to the back of the property
one 4' man gate to the mail box
one 4' man gate to the side of the house
1356 sf of concrete for the second driveway
2 large driveway gate designs (horses)

Iron guy is asking $11,765 for his part.
The concrete guy is asking $25,394 for his part (we selected the most expensive option for the stone.....)

Now that I see what stamping can do on the concrete... hmm, I'm going to see what he can do. The whole separation of plates from the concrete block was worrying me. If they don't put plates on while concrete is still soft, there is not going to be any bonding between the concrete and the plates because the back of the plates is fairly smooth.

I've also read that overlays can peel/crack overtime as well. Is that mostly true or false?

user1007 06-07-2011 04:59 AM

I've also read that overlays can peel/crack overtime as well. Is that mostly true or false?[/quote]
Mostly true and when you think about it they almost have to do so. On the one hand you have a more or less solid mass of concrete that is going to heat and expand and cool and contract at times. And on top of it you are plunking essentially a laminate, of a different material, that will too but at a different rate. The only thing holding one to the other is some construction adhesive that will flex at yet a different temp. A recipe for problems?

Not sure I understand the logic of having to place your caps or plates when the concrete is wet but will defer to your contractor on that.

And do note that there are 100s if not 1000s of concrete stamping patterns out there. It sounds like your contractor will do this for you? And of source all sorts of colorants.

Sounds like you are going to end up with one really nice looking fence but at something less than chimp change. They going to electricoat the finish on to the metal fence sections for you? If not at least bite the bullet and have them use a metal primer like that on battleships or other boat hulls and fittings but better than milspec in quality.

bkboggy 06-07-2011 11:15 AM

sadsester, just something I saw on Holmes home improvement show. They were redoing a kitchen and had to replace fake stone slabs that he could pill off with his hands because there was nothing holding them.... the plates were put on when concrete dried, and they use an adhesive that didn't do a good job holding them. If you put them on when concrete is wet, you can push them into the concrete, thus creating a small frame of concrete around the plates to hold them in place.

Not sure as far as the metal coating... I'll have to ask the iron guy about it.

What I still have question on is the whole stamping thing. Do they lay a concrete block wall and then add a layer of stampable concrete, which then they form into what may look like stone? The stone overlays are about $10 per sf for main wall and the corners of wall columns are a bit more expensive. How much does stamping usually run? It would probably take more work too, since he has to manually make it look like a stone? He's coming over today at 6pm, so I'm going to have to see what he can do.

user1007 06-07-2011 11:52 AM

Stamping is part of the final finishing process. I have actually never seen it done on vertical surfaces like yours but no reason it could not work.

You know, you might be better off having the concrete portions of your fence poured flat, stamped, and welded together on site. Your posts and all would have to be fitted in place but no biggy.

Just concerns me you are about to sink what some on this site spend on a home for a fence. I am not saying you should not or that it is inappropriate but having come this far? I would not trust anybody suggesting any piece of veneer is going to live happily ever after with the concrete pour. You are being had lad.

mustangmike3789 06-07-2011 04:22 PM

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