Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-27-2011, 04:10 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


Where would I find metal shims, to shim posts/beams? I've been cutting shims from a 4x4, but I think metal might be better if the cost is not too great. I couldn't find any at HD, but I wasn't looking very hard.

Thanks!

Vince

Vincer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 05:01 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Posts: 1,847
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


Steel supply or a welding shop should be able to cut you whatever you want. If on PT wood, they need to be galvanized or stainless. Any way to get plastic in there? You can buy various kinds of "plastic" in various thicknesses, too. Plywood won't work?

jklingel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jklingel For This Useful Post:
Vincer (05-28-2011)
Old 05-27-2011, 05:06 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


I just thought you could buy a pack of steel shims somewhere. I need to shim between some joists and a new beam I put in. The sag near the center is like 1/4" from the bottom of the joist.

I thought steel would hold up better by not compressing under load? I'm no pro. I had cut some from douglas fir (just taking a slice out of the leftover 4x4 I used as posts) but thought that if steel were cheap/easy that it might be better somehow! I may just be over thinking this.
Vincer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 05:29 PM   #4
NACE Coating Inspector
 
mustangmike3789's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 524
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincer View Post
I just thought you could buy a pack of steel shims somewhere. I need to shim between some joists and a new beam I put in. The sag near the center is like 1/4" from the bottom of the joist.

I thought steel would hold up better by not compressing under load? I'm no pro. I had cut some from douglas fir (just taking a slice out of the leftover 4x4 I used as posts) but thought that if steel were cheap/easy that it might be better somehow! I may just be over thinking this.
would body shims or suspension shims from an auto parts store work for what you are trying to accomplish.
mustangmike3789 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mustangmike3789 For This Useful Post:
tpolk (05-28-2011), Vincer (05-28-2011)
Old 05-27-2011, 05:58 PM   #5
DIY staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 22,103
Rewards Points: 2,848
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


Look in the roofing section---Menards has packets if galvanized steel squares that I use to shim bath tubs.
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to oh'mike For This Useful Post:
Vincer (05-28-2011)
Old 05-27-2011, 06:19 PM   #6
Too Short? Cut it Again!
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,634
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


Shimming a sagging beam, assuming it is not decorative, with any sort of shims kind of scares me. What is or will be on top of all this? Of course the lumber could be warped that much I suppose if the gap is at the center. I would have picked a piece of straight lumber but if it was crowned? I would put it down crown up. If I saw a 1/4 inch gap though? I would probably chalk it up to aging and not sighting the lumber. I would pull it out and get a new one. How long is this beam and what are the joist dimensions?

A sheet metal shop, if you give them a few days, will make you folded over wedge things that will conform out of steel or whatever you want. I just don't get how you think metal better than wood shims?

To be honest, if this is new construction? I would get some jacks to support the beam and cut out the support member and fit a new member cut to the proper size. Or if you cannot, still jack it up and slip a solid steel plate in there or something (Mickey Mouse construction thinking I know).

You cannot "shim" a quarter inch gap between structural members unless you slip the inspector cash, a hotel key, expensive scotch and cheap hula dancing hooker from whatever convention is in town.

Whatever path you take? Know that shimmed, that 1/4 inch will grow in dimension over the years and come to haunt you.

Last edited by user1007; 05-27-2011 at 06:42 PM.
user1007 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to user1007 For This Useful Post:
Vincer (05-28-2011)
Old 05-27-2011, 08:19 PM   #7
DIY staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 22,103
Rewards Points: 2,848
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


[quote=sdsester;656264]S

You cannot "shim" a quarter inch gap between structural members unless you slip the inspector cash, a hotel key, expensive scotch and cheap hula dancing hooker from whatever convention is in town.


---Thank you--I needed a laugh.---Mike---
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 01:26 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


I just put the beam in. It's 4x8, supported with 4x4's that are 6 feet apart (I should have probably made it 4 feet apart. It's purpose is to reinforce the floor in anticipation of an aquarium that will be placed between the beam and the foundation wall on the floor above. The joist span that the aquarium will sit on is 4 feet. ie; the main house beam is 10 or 11 feet from the wall. I added this beam 4 feet from the wall and the aquarium will sit above it between beam and wall.

I actually flipped the beam around and it was still "sagging". I thought ... oops, I have the crown side down, I'll flip it and ... same thing.

I'm thinking that the beam is not warped, and I'll check it with a laser level later, but get this...The beam spans about 6 joists or so. The first joist has a gap of 1/8", the second joist is almost above the post and it's snug up against the beam, the third joist gaps at 1/8", the fourth 1/4", the fifth is 1/8", the sixth is snug up and is somewhat above the post. In retrospect, I did a terrible job of planning the posts out, as I should have spaced them better around the joists, but it is what it is.

So ...what's up with the first joist being 1/8" then the second being snug, then the thirst being 1/8"? I'll take a picture. If it were sagging in the middle, I would assume that the first joist would be snug as the beam bends.

I should have checked for straightness better.

In anycase, the beam is there for extra support to prevent the floor from sagging under a 2000 lb or more aquarium, it's not in there to correct any current problem.

Vince
Vincer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 01:59 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


OK, I crawled back down there and I took some pics and also I used a laser level and checked...the top of the beam is STRAIGHT. So it's the wanky joists. I should point out that this house was built in 1939, so maybe things are a bit weirder down there wrt consistent joist width? No, that doesn't make sense. I don't know what's going on, but the beam is pretty straight.

Let me see if I can attach a picture, or a link to pics here...ugh, well here are links to the pics, I'll see if I can figure out how to upload better

The laser sighted beam

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

Full view of beam, note the wood shims I shoved in there

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

NOTES: I have not nailed the metal hardware to the wood yet and the metal straps from the preformed concrete piers are NOT perfectly perpendicular to the block, they are slanted. One post is shorter than the other, the ground is not level. The beam i mostly level, but I don't think it matters that much as it's snug up against those joists that do touch it.

Last edited by Vincer; 05-28-2011 at 02:02 AM.
Vincer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 06:35 AM   #10
DIY staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 22,103
Rewards Points: 2,848
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


Looks good to hold the aquarium---I like steel shims better than wood for that application.
he wood will work.


I suspect that the builder had some highly crowned joists there!
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to oh'mike For This Useful Post:
Vincer (05-28-2011)
Old 05-28-2011, 07:06 AM   #11
Mod
 
kwikfishron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kansas (NCK)
Posts: 7,725
Rewards Points: 2,450
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


You cut the post short, jack the beam tight to the joist and shim or re-cut the post then secure the joist to the beam.

Are the post treated?
__________________
A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words
Especially In The DIY Chatroom
kwikfishron is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kwikfishron For This Useful Post:
Vincer (05-28-2011)
Old 05-28-2011, 09:49 AM   #12
Too Short? Cut it Again!
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,634
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikfishron View Post
You cut the post short, jack the beam tight to the joist and shim or re-cut the post then secure the joist to the beam.
My theory as expressed before also but I thought you had a gap between the posts and the beam somehow. No matter. Since this added support you might not need jacks but I would rent or borrow or couple to see how close you can get the top of the beam to those joist. Then measure carefully and cut your posts.

You can shim door frames, windows and other non-structural things to hold them in place. You really don't want to use them as a fix for gaps in structural support. Shims of any kind have no real structural integrity as far as supporting live loads and things. If you still have gaps of 1/4" I wouldn't use shims. I would have steel plates cut. Not angled shims.

Bless you for doing this by the way. You don't know how many fish enthusiasts I have encountered that just brought huge things home, filled them with water forgetting the weight and dead load, and wondered why they heard strange sounds like lumber screaming or nails pulling out of joist hangers at night.

And do check to make sure your joists are on hangers and not toe nailed as was still common practice in the 30s. It will be a pain but you don't want an aquarium resting on 16 or 20p nails.

And just out of curiosity, if the joists are just causing the gap because the lumber was crowned? How level is you finish floor above? What is the subfloor. How does placement of the aquarium impact it? The aquarium will sit crossing the joists, not parallel to them right?

Last edited by user1007; 05-28-2011 at 10:00 AM.
user1007 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to user1007 For This Useful Post:
Vincer (05-28-2011)
Old 05-28-2011, 11:50 AM   #13
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,788
Rewards Points: 2,128
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


I would have no reservations about sliding a few steel shims in considering your situation. We use them regularily between steel or wood beams & the foundation. I cut all of our steel shims from 1/4" or 1/8" by 4-5" steel plate. I buy 20' lengths due to the amount we consume. You should be able to find something a tad smaller at a decent hardware store, and just need to cut them to length.
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jomama45 For This Useful Post:
Vincer (05-28-2011)
Old 05-28-2011, 12:18 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario Canada, Toronto to be exact.
Posts: 1,373
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


[quote=oh'mike;656326]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsester View Post
S

You cannot "shim" a quarter inch gap between structural members unless you slip the inspector cash, a hotel key, expensive scotch and cheap hula dancing hooker from whatever convention is in town.


---Thank you--I needed a laugh.---Mike---
Actually you can shim the beam with a metal shim we have done it many times but you have to weld the shim to the beam and post the building inspector will pass it. We have also seen people stack in excess of 7 or more metal shims in various thicknesses and then weld them all together and the inspector still passed it go figure.
epson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to epson For This Useful Post:
Vincer (05-28-2011)
Old 05-28-2011, 01:08 PM   #15
Too Short? Cut it Again!
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,634
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Where would I purchase metal shims?


I am confused at this point. Like most of you I assumed the 1/4" gap was between the posts and the beam. If I see the problem from the pictures? The gaps are between the top of the beam and the bottom of the joists.

The beam has been determined to be level.

You would not propose to shim with wood, steel or whatever between all the spaces between joists and beam would you?

This beam and its posts are non load bearing at this point. Why not just bite the bullet and cut the posts a 1/4" taller? Jack up the beam even if it makes the other joist squeak a bit. And but the structure in place?

The guy plans to put a billion pounds of dead weighted water and fish (I love sushi from client aquariums) on this structure and at least realized he needs extra support. I really don't want him starting with a 1/4" gap although I will accept a steel plate, cut to size and anchored in place as a solution. I still don't know if I could get the scheme past an inspector though.

And if the ends of the joists are hanging only by 20p nails toenailed, typical of the era of the guys house, it is all potentially a rather academic argument?


Last edited by user1007; 05-28-2011 at 01:14 PM.
user1007 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to user1007 For This Useful Post:
Vincer (05-28-2011)
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why can't you connect Ground/Neutral bus bars on a sub secutanudu Electrical 42 11-07-2012 02:33 PM
Replacing metal box caused issues rivers001 Electrical 28 03-07-2011 01:21 AM
Standing seam metal in NJ pcampbell Roofing/Siding 1 05-12-2009 08:10 PM
Wire size for 300watt trans, 3 way 100ft Al the Diy guy Electrical 16 03-22-2008 09:46 PM
plastic or metal boxes for outlet wiring? yummy mummy Building & Construction 9 12-31-2006 02:37 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.