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Old 02-28-2014, 01:02 PM   #46
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


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Originally Posted by The Jeep Driver View Post
There isn't a sewer smell from there at all. Would the standing (i.e. standing) water indicate there's a trap down there?

From what I'm getting from you all, this hole ties into either;
  1. the sewer
  2. the footer tile
  3. nothing; open to relieve hydrostatic pressure
And before anyone else suggests it, yes, I have a sump pit. LOL!
I'm willing to be that it's tied into the sewer AND the footing draintile. In the era (usually pre-1950 here) of Palmer valves, what you're seeing is somewhat common. This is a huge problem (backing up through the floor drain during heavy rains) in many parts of Milwaukee............


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Old 02-28-2014, 07:22 PM   #47
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


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Originally Posted by The Jeep Driver View Post
As far as I can tell, the pit discharged to a culvert that is about 85' from my back door. (I just went out and measured.) I don't know, and when I tied my new 2" outlets into either the storm sewer or out to the culvert, I didn't ask. As far as elevation, the storm sewer opening in in my neighbors front yard, and directly around the opening is graded to slope in, but it looks like the area as a whole, my back and side yards are the lowest point. I guess in hindsight, having a 2' culvert out back should have been an indicator that my yard was the neighborhood discharge point. I have no idea where the water that goes into the culvert ends up.

As long as your the lowest point on the block,your going to have flood problems when you get a heavy rain,unless your city fixes the problem and I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening any time soon,your best bet is to install a check valve to stop the flooding,one of these would be your best bet as it's accessible from ground level,and can be removed for repair or cleaning without digging it up.

look up "rectorseal" on Amazon.com

You can see how it works from this site

http://cleancheck.rectorseal.com/about.htm

Last edited by Canarywood1; 02-28-2014 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:04 PM   #48
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


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Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
I'm willing to be that it's tied into the sewer AND the footing draintile. In the era (usually pre-1950 here) of Palmer valves, what you're seeing is somewhat common.
This house was built in 1973.
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Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
Also, have you answer the question of where does that pipe under the 'standpipe' go? Where does it lead?
I don't know and I can't tell from snaking it. I will have to hire someone to scope it.

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As long as your the lowest point on the block,your going to have flood problems when you get a heavy rain,unless your city fixes the problem and I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening any time soon,
My neighbor told me the current storm sewer set-up was the fix. Let me recap/clarify, I've only been here since 09/12. In that time there have been three "floods;" where the rain/melting snow was more than the storm sewer could handle. On two of those occasions, my lower level flooded. One was 07/13, a flash flood 5" of rain in one hour. The other was 12/13, NOAA issued flood warning, heavy rain with melting; the water came into the pit (from the tile and elsewhere) faster than it could pump it out. I have the water removal issue corrected, 01/13. Since then, we've had one NOAA flood warning, 02/13, the pumps kept up just fine, and no seepage through the cracks. Because of the pumps moving the water out, i.e. removing water from under the slab, or coincidence?
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Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
Right, so your pit is collecting water. And you're not seeing that coming in via the large pipes connected to it. That about sum it up? If that's the case then the water isn't being managed, it's just choosing it's own course and eventually collecting at the pit. The questions are where else is it collecting first and what other problems is it causing, both at that point and along the way to the pit?
I do see water coming into the pit via the inlet pipe (tied to footer tile), but the sump pit will still fill even if there isn't water coming in from the tile. I think that this is collecting water from under the floor, but I don't know.
Quote:
But it does bear revisiting just what is it you want to accomplish "today" and in the long term?
My OP was wanting to know what that pipe was? A floor drain or a stack pipe? Some say "drain", some "stack pipe" and some "both."

You all have made some great points and raised issues that I hadn't thought of, most of all, you said "Because it's not just about keeping the sump pit empty, it's about making sure whatever water that's getting to it isn't also eroding the ground underneath." How can I tell if this is what is happening?

I want to stop the water from coming up through the cracks in the floor. I am planning on "painting" the floor with a roll on "liquid rock" and don't want the "paint" to bubble up at the cracks. I do not know if what I have done by fixing the issue of the pumps not being able to move water out fast enough is enough to take the pressure off the slab, and this stop the seepage at the cracks.
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:39 PM   #49
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


Nice job with the picture! You mentioned various orientations in past messages, and other outside elements (east/west, driveway). It might help to note those on the picture too.

I take it the whole basement has a slab? That the crawl space also has a slab floor? Is it all on the same level?

What's outside the wall where you have the blob of seepage (hint, don't use black text over a blue background, I had to zoom waaaay close to see what you'd typed there). The fact that you've got cracks 'closest' to that wall is potentially interesting. What outside water management has been done, or can be done, along that wall?

I know it's hard to go back and forth with text posts to try and figure this out. Eventually it might lead to saying "you need to have an expert come assess the situation". If anything paying someone to do that might help get better advice online also. Sometimes a local 'expert' adds certain terminology to the conversation that speaks volumes about the problem. Not saying that's necessary at this point but it'd be something to consider.

I would think that any attempts to paint or otherwise cover that floor would be worth postponing until you can get a better solution to the problem. Otherwise it's just money wasted.

As for determining erosion, that's sort of dependent on understanding just how much water is being pumped through there, and what gets ejected in the process. Going through a lot of pumps because they're getting chewed up by sand, soil or other materials is one sure sign. Cracking and sinking flooring is another (which by then it's already a big deal).

The short answer is find ways to keep the water away from ever getting to the foundation. Then find ways to quickly get whatever water DOES get to the house down and away from the outside of the walls. It's generally bad to allow the situation to get to the point where the water works it's way under the slab.
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:54 PM   #50
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


Do you know what type of soil your house is built upon?
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:20 PM   #51
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


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Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
Nice job with the picture!
Thanks!
Quote:
You mentioned various orientations in past messages, and other outside elements (east/west, driveway). It might help to note those on the picture too.
I can't get the site to let me edit that post or delete that picture, so I edited it and re-posted it.

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I take it the whole basement has a slab? That the crawl space also has a slab floor? Is it all on the same level?
Yes, the crawl space has concrete floor. Yes, everything is on the same level.

Quote:
What's outside the wall where you have the blob of seepage (hint, don't use black text over a blue background, I had to zoom waaaay close to see what you'd typed there). The fact that you've got cracks 'closest' to that wall is potentially interesting. What outside water management has been done, or can be done, along that wall?
That is were the driveway is at. I don't know what's been done, I assume nothing...

Quote:
I know it's hard to go back and forth with text posts to try and figure this out. Eventually it might lead to saying "you need to have an expert come assess the situation". If anything paying someone to do that might help get better advice online also. Sometimes a local 'expert' adds certain terminology to the conversation that speaks volumes about the problem. Not saying that's necessary at this point but it'd be something to consider.
... I had two experts out, one I hired to stop a worse seepage issue on the south wall, excavated and fixed. He said doing the same to the east wall would be pricey, due to the drive and landscaping. I can't remember if carpet was still on the floor or not, so he may not have seen the cracks.
Quote:
I would think that any attempts to paint or otherwise cover that floor would be worth postponing until you can get a better solution to the problem. Otherwise it's just money wasted.
*sigh* Having the floor ground down today to prep. (I found a guy who is doing it for less than I could rent the grinder!)

Quote:
As for determining erosion, that's sort of dependent on understanding just how much water is being pumped through there, and what gets ejected in the process. Going through a lot of pumps because they're getting chewed up by sand, soil or other materials is one sure sign. Cracking and sinking flooring is another (which by then it's already a big deal).

The short answer is find ways to keep the water away from ever getting to the foundation. Then find ways to quickly get whatever water DOES get to the house down and away from the outside of the walls. It's generally bad to allow the situation to get to the point where the water works it's way under the slab.
I haven't been here long enough to know about the pumps. I know the floor is cracked! And not completely level... I was going to ask for some ideas on what to do with this, but in the appropriate Forum on DIY.

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Originally Posted by landfillwizard View Post
Do you know what type of soil your house is built upon?
No idea.
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:17 PM   #52
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


I am wondering as some time in the past, hydrostatic pressure has caused the concrete floor to lift and crack. Even though you don't see water coming in the inlet to the sump some how ground water is coming out from under the lab and getting into the sump which is good. This is relieving the pressure from under the slab. It appears as though the pumps are taking the water out of the basement so i would leave the sump alone. Have you been in the house during the summer and observed the water level in the sump?
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:47 PM   #53
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


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I am wondering as some time in the past, hydrostatic pressure has caused the concrete floor to lift and crack. Even though you don't see water coming in the inlet to the sump some how ground water is coming out from under the lab and getting into the sump which is good. This is relieving the pressure from under the slab. It appears as though the pumps are taking the water out of the basement so i would leave the sump alone. Have you been in the house during the summer and observed the water level in the sump?
I don't know how much you've read, so this they be redundant; the previous owners had an inferior, inadequate pump connected to a 1" outlet. My new set-up is capable of moving 90 gallons a minute if needed. I think I am done with the sump pit! This will be our second summer here. I didn't pay too much attention to the water level in the pit until we flooded again in December, and I got a clue that I needed to addresses that issue now. That was when I noticed the pit would fill even if no water was coming in from the inlet pipe.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:45 AM   #54
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


should be more careful next time you buy a house

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Old 03-02-2014, 01:20 PM   #55
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


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should be more careful next time you buy a house

Really? That's what you decide to post after reading the thread, assuming you did. What would you have done differently?
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Old 03-02-2014, 01:22 PM   #56
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


Looks more like a hit-and-run link spammer than anything else. Don't feed the trolls, use the (!) report button.
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Old 03-02-2014, 02:14 PM   #57
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


I am going through this same problem as yourself, I am trying to give you suggestions that I have found helpful. The sump you have set up will more than take care of any water, baring another flood, that comes into your basement. The stand pipe I assume was a floor drain that fed into the footer drain into the sump. However. now the water table is so high, the water flows back into the floor drain. When the weather gets better, is there any way you can hire someone with a mini excavator to get in between the shaded area and the house to place drainage stone or geotextile along the concrete wall to direct the water away from this area? How much elevation difference is there between the basement floor and the culvert? Just wondering if you can gravity drain the footer drain to the culvert?
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:00 PM   #58
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


It's indeed worth consider ways to divert surface water, especially when there's clearly visible terrain leading down to the house. A bit of trenching done 'uphill' of the house potentially could do a lot to gather that water before it gets to the house. But this would absolutely depend upon knowing the soil make up. Of which the state gov't ought to have at least some regional mapping. Otherwise it's dig-and-see.

Around here it's pretty easy, we've got clay with just a 2-3 of topsoil (if that). So any rain that comes down tends to seep through that thin layer and then just sheet along the top of the clay, downhill toward whatever's in the way.
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:46 PM   #59
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


We have gravel for our natural subgrade. It is nice for drainage except that the neighbor down the road has diverted the water so there is ponding out behind the vineyards behind our house. this water percolates into the gravel and ends up in the basements of the neighbor hood. the Department of Environmental Conservation has issued a cease and desist order for him to open up the channel to allow the water to drain out from the area behind all of our homes. There are 2 of the farmers he has flooded out their vineyards that have taken him to court to sue him for damages. The neighbor hood is getting a lawyer to begin a suit for damages he has caused.

Now trhat the cold weather has returned the water in the subgrade has stopped. However when the temperatures return to above freezing the cycle of flood will begin again. My better half has been in this place for over 30 years and has never seen flooding like this in all the years she has lived here. The landowner that has caused the flooding is a millionaire lawyer so we have found a sheister type lawyer that is going to sue him for all of the neighborhood. We'll have to see how things turn out.

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