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Old 02-26-2014, 12:35 PM   #31
Bill Kearney
 
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


Ok, so if you did manage to get the water collected 'well enough' is there some way to get it away from the house without it just adding to the amount coming in? You mention low point in the neighborhood. Is the sewer still lower? And can you, legally, pump into that? Some jurisdiction will not allow pumping into the sewer system due to the strain that puts on the system.

Around here it's not allowed. Hell, I can't even dump it straight out to the street anymore, but that's a different argument.

As for pumps, it's not uncommon to have a second pump up a bit higher than the regular one. The idea being if the first one can't keep up, the second pump kicks in to help. A second one there being larger wouldn't be as prone to being short-cycled.

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Old 02-26-2014, 12:39 PM   #32
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


And the second pit, do you mean there's no drain for it to pump out (it's just a hole) or that there's no observable signs of drains coming INTO it? I'm guessing the later? You can't see any drain tile lines coming into it? Might it have gotten filled up with debris over time and they're now buried?

I'd consider having the drain tile system scoped with a camera to get a heads up on what's really present.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:57 PM   #33
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


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Ok, so if you did manage to get the water collected 'well enough' is there some way to get it away from the house without it just adding to the amount coming in?
As far as I can tell, the pit discharged to a culvert that is about 85' from my back door. (I just went out and measured.)
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You mention low point in the neighborhood. Is the sewer still lower? And can you, legally, pump into that? Some jurisdiction will not allow pumping into the sewer system due to the strain that puts on the system.

Around here it's not allowed. Hell, I can't even dump it straight out to the street anymore, but that's a different argument.
I don't know, and when I tied my new 2" outlets into either the storm sewer or out to the culvert, I didn't ask. As far as elevation, the storm sewer opening in in my neighbors front yard, and directly around the opening is graded to slope in, but it looks like the area as a whole, my back and side yards are the lowest point. I guess in hindsight, having a 2' culvert out back should have been an indicator that my yard was the neighborhood discharge point. I have no idea where the water that goes into the culvert ends up.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:03 PM   #34
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


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And the second pit, do you mean there's no drain for it to pump out (it's just a hole) or that there's no observable signs of drains coming INTO it? I'm guessing the later? You can't see any drain tile lines coming into it? Might it have gotten filled up with debris over time and they're now buried?

I'd consider having the drain tile system scoped with a camera to get a heads up on what's really present.
Right, there isn't an inlet pipe. For sure, I climbed in there and had a look. The water seeps in through the holes. And I don't know where this one discharges to either. It looks like it heads towards the storm sewer, but it's hard to tell.

I had my footer tile scoped to check for clogs and breaks, might have to have him come back out. He wants $250, so I am trying to avoid it.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:46 AM   #35
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


bill, you can't even discharge into a storm drain system ? wtf ?
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:48 AM   #36
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


Why in the world would you buy the house without having something like that checked out, or at least asking about it?? Did you happen to read the seller's disclosure statement? Unless it mentions past flooding, they probably commited fraud. I'd talk to a real estate lawyer.

That aside, you have a serious issue that can only be properly address from outside the house.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:01 AM   #37
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


Given he posted this a few messages back I'd say he's already well aware of buyer's remorse:
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We bought the house (09/12) as a foreclosure, as is, without a disclosure
So let's not beat him up more than he's probably already doing to himself (or from his wife, right?).

I tend to agree that managing the water outside the house is probably a better way to deal with it. One would hope there's already a drain tile system in place around the foundation. And that there's waterproofing on the outside walls that redirects the water to the system. Because it's not just about keeping the sump pit empty, it's about making sure whatever water that's getting to it isn't also eroding the ground underneath.

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Old 02-27-2014, 08:06 AM   #38
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


good comments for pre-sale but that's all in the past,,, now the issue is ' what do do ? '

waterproofing can ONLY be done on the exterior &, most economically, while the house is under construction,,, after its built, it becomes ' water management ' - so that's where we are now ! interestingly enough, builders' warranties only cover water leaks for the 1st year.

retro exterior work is possible, of course, however the cost runs headlong into available funds & value ( best bang for the buck ),,, that's why waterproofers often have larger boats than plumbers
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:42 AM   #39
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


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Given he posted this a few messages back I'd say he's already well aware of buyer's remorse: So let's not beat him up more than he's probably already doing to himself (or from his wife, right?).
Right, no disclosure, and the home inspector was a joke. Rubber stamped everything as "OK." The roof (fixed), the foundation leak (fixed), the furnace (replaced)... buyer's remorse is long, long gone. Just got to tackle each issue and get it done. We still got a good deal on the house, just not a great deal like we thought. And this is her house, the one she had to have!

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I tend to agree that managing the water outside the house is probably a better way to deal with it. One would hope there's already a drain tile system in place around the foundation. And that there's waterproofing on the outside walls that redirects the water to the system. Because it's not just about keeping the sump pit empty, it's about making sure whatever water that's getting to it isn't also eroding the ground underneath.
There is a tile system, and I did have it scoped. Can you explain more about what you're talking about in the section I emphasized?

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good comments for pre-sale but that's all in the past,,, now the issue is ' what do do ? '

waterproofing can ONLY be done on the exterior &, most economically, while the house is under construction,,, after its built, it becomes ' water management ' - so that's where we are now ! interestingly enough, builders' warranties only cover water leaks for the 1st year.

retro exterior work is possible, of course, however the cost runs headlong into available funds & value ( best bang for the buck ),,, that's why waterproofers often have larger boats than plumbers
The south side of the house has been excavated and repaired. The water issues I have now are 1] the pumps not keeping up (fixed), 2] some seepage on the east side when there is very heavy rain, and 3] water seeps through cracks in the floor, both in crawl space and family room when there is very heavy rain.

#3 is what I need to address before I finish the floor. This is why I'm trying to figure out what the pipe is; we are calling it a "stack pipe," does it take hydrostatic pressure of the slab? Is hydrostatic pressure causing the water to push up through the cracks?
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:19 AM   #40
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


no surprise re the ' home inspectors ' which is why we use ONLY PE's whose work we know

see a couple sections emphasized - which 1 AND who - me or ?

we always install 4" pvc cleanouts on exterior OR interior systems - just makes things easier for someone else/us,,, w/o knowing what was done outside, who knows ? when we install an exterior system, we either drain to daylight ( downhill ) OR install a buried sump & pump even if it requires a 10' x 24" standpipe for access,,, otherwise all you've done is create a sub-surface pond

suggest you consider a sub-floor interior water management system ( incorrectly called a ' french drain ' ] w/lateral piping across the floor,,, it sounds as if you've got either an extremely high water table OR an underground creek's found your ( her ) very fine home.

' some seepage ' still isn't acceptable, is it ? seeping ' cracks in the floor ' suggest hydrostatic pressure - water will seek its own level,,, again, think of your house's bsmt as comparable to a ship's hull below the waterline the piping's purpose is to direct collected water to a sump & pump,,, IF the wtr can't get there ( alleviate itself somehow ), up it comes

we successfully ' waterproofed ' basements on the nj coast which were below high tide, 5M gal sewage treatment tank in moonachie, nj, & even ' waterproofed ' pautuxent naval station's testing replica ' carrier runway ' deck & below-sea level control bridge,,, it can be done - just use your head

water runs downhill; seeks its own level; takes the path of least resistance, & rushes to fill a void [ try making a hole in a tub full of water ]

good luck !
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:49 AM   #41
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


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#3 is what I need to address before I finish the floor. This is why I'm trying to figure out what the pipe is; we are calling it a "stack pipe," does it take hydrostatic pressure of the slab? Is hydrostatic pressure causing the water to push up through the cracks?
This ties into the suggestion that there's water building up underneath the floor. Using a pipe like that just lets the water stack up inside the pipe rather than coming right up at the floor level. This is basically a bad idea. Because instead of allowing the water to come up at the floor level it's causing all of the other areas nearby to see a rise in static pressure. If see any water in the pipe rising above the level of the floor then it means there's more water under the surrounding area that ALSO wants to come up. Better to have the water get collected BELOW the level of the slab and ejected via a pump than to use a pipe like that.

This is where using pipes UNDER the field of the floor might be necessary. Bring the water from under the slab to the pit(s) rather than let the pressure build up and force it's way up through cracks. Or, worse, make existing cracks or weakness worse.

But this does require knowing 'for sure' to what that pipe is connected.

Because it's from where ever that pipe is connected that is seeing a rise in level above that of the floor. As in, let's say the pipe runs outside the house and over to a dry well (basically an underground pit). If that pit gets filled and the level 'over there' rises above the floor 'over here' then you'll see water here. But that doesn't mean the level under that spot is rising. It just means the level where the pipe's getting it's water is rising.

Think of it like a hose connected to the bottoms of a big bucket of water. If you run the hose way over to another area and then fill the bucket, you'll still only see water come out of the hose if it's lower than the top level of the water in the bucket.
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:01 AM   #42
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


Do you know what type of soil conditions you have in your yard? I think Itsreallyconc has got the right idea. The water table in so high that it forces water through the cracks into the basement. We have the same problems now that the farmer in the neighborhood changed the surface drainage. We are on an old beach type gravel and because of the surface water changes, water backs up in an area behind the old beach. This water migrates through the sand and gravel and eventually raise the ground water table so high that the water infiltrates through the cracks in the concrete floor.

The house was built in 1916 and has an old laid up foundation. The inside and outside were parged with concrete to seal them up. This has worked very well for over 90 years until the water table changed. The sump that is in our basement was constructed at the high point of the concrete floor. I have purchased submersible sump pumps that will draw water down to " from the floor. These pumps (3) take the water to the sump and Then to a dry well away from the house.

The hose lies on a north/south line and the water infiltrates from the south side where the sump is. I am planning to construct a sump on the northeast side of the basement and place another sump pump into the new sump. I am planning to use an electric jack hammer and place small trenches in the concrete floor to run the water that comes into the basement to the new sump. The basement is only used for storage and so far anything on the floor is in plastic totes. Everything else in on selve ~6" above the floor.

Our neighbor made a mistake and drilled a 1" hole in the floor hoping to relieve the pressure. I did! Now when the water table is high he has a fountain in his basement. The hydrostatic pressure is high enough that the water squirts up almost 4"! He now placed 1 submersible pump over the fountain to get rid of the water.

So I thought I would tell Jeep driver he is not the only one having problems with water.

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Old 02-28-2014, 10:18 AM   #43
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


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see a couple sections emphasized - which 1 AND who - me or ?
Sorry, I was wanting a further explaination on Bill's comment:
Quote:
Because it's not just about keeping the sump pit empty, it's about making sure whatever water that's getting to it isn't also eroding the ground underneath.
What are the signs that this is occurring?
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' some seepage ' still isn't acceptable, is it ?
No, not really. I wasn't talking about the cracks in the floor when I mentioned this though, this seepage happens along the East wall. It's in the crawl space. And to excavate would likely mean taking up a portion of the concrete driveway. It happens so infrequently, at this time it's not a concern.
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This ties into the suggestion that there's water building up underneath the floor. Using a pipe like that just lets the water stack up inside the pipe rather than coming right up at the floor level. This is basically a bad idea. Because instead of allowing the water to come up at the floor level it's causing all of the other areas nearby to see a rise in static pressure. If see any water in the pipe rising above the level of the floor then it means there's more water under the surrounding area that ALSO wants to come up. Better to have the water get collected BELOW the level of the slab and ejected via a pump than to use a pipe like that.
My sump pit will fill even if there is no water coming in from the inlet (footer?) tile. Does this indicate that the pit is collecting water from below the slab?
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Do you know what type of soil conditions you have in your yard?
I do not.
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So I thought I would tell Jeep driver he is not the only one having problems with water.
Yeah, it's been a rough year for a lot of people in our area, first the flash flood in July, now this constant freeze/thaw cycling with more and more rain/snow. We've gotten more precipitation this winter than in the Blizzard of '78.
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:02 AM   #44
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


Right, so your pit is collecting water. And you're not seeing that coming in via the large pipes connected to it. That about sum it up?

If that's the case then the water isn't being managed, it's just choosing it's own course and eventually collecting at the pit. The questions are where else is it collecting first and what other problems is it causing, both at that point and along the way to the pit?

It'd help if you posted a rough drawing of where everything is located. The program Paint.NET is a great freebie (for Windows) for creating stuff like this. http://www.getpaint.net/

But it does bear revisiting just what is it you want to accomplish "today" and in the long term?
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:03 AM   #45
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What is this? PVC pipe coming out of a drain?


Also, have you answer the question of where does that pipe under the 'standpipe' go? Where does it lead?

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