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-   -   What To Prime Wood With to Accept Joint Compound? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/what-prime-wood-accept-joint-compound-55999/)

Lovegasoline 10-26-2009 05:59 PM

What To Prime Wood With to Accept Joint Compound?
 
Iím attempting a plaster repair to a ceiling. The ceiling/wall has a cove profile terminating in a 1/4Ē Ďlipí that boarders the ceiling. The effect is as if the ceiling plane is recessed 1/4Ē. This lip is not even: itís chipped, crooked, and various thicknesses after years of poor quality repairs and a recent scraping.

In order to reestablish the sharp crisp 1/4Ē lip, Iím considering taking 1/4Ē x 1/4Ē wood moulding various lengths and using a brad nailer & Liquid Nails adhesive to fix the wood molding up against the lipÖthereby making a new edge. Then, Iíll use standard premix all purpose joint compound and/or hot mud to fill in any gaps between wood and plaster and also to blend the wood into the rest of the ceiling.

I was told joint compound doesnít stick well to wood. What is a recommended product to prime the wood with to accept the compound?
Btw, I have Zinsser BIN 1-2-3- and also Zinsser Cover Stain on hand here.

Also, Iím concerned about the finish brads splitting the narrow 1/4Ē square mouldingÖdo you think the Liquid Nails will suffice for fixing the moulding permanently to the ceiling (the ceiling is variously plaster, joint compound, and latex paint in different places).


Thanks a bunch.

gregzoll 10-26-2009 08:24 PM

Joint compound will stick to anything that it touches, just like paint.

user1007 10-26-2009 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 345782)
Joint compound will stick to anything that it touches, just like paint.

Exactly, which is why you have to prime wood before you paint it so it will stick!

You may get buy without priming but given the application, I would be tempted to hit the wood with a bonding latex or oil based alkyd primer first.

Lovegasoline 10-26-2009 10:07 PM

So, the two primers I mentioned in my first post will either, or both of them, do the job?

After the repair, the room will be painted with Behr latex primer and Benjamin Moore latex top coat.

Gary in WA 10-26-2009 11:31 PM

Of the two, the cover stain is an oil based product which will seal the wood pores better, probably as good as a concrete bonder. (Then the wood won't swell up at application and shrink when it dries, breaking the bond). Is the 1/4" wood? Usually, one has to make a hardboard template, cut in the profile of area, to drag across the wet mud. (How it was initially made). Then lightly smooth the profile with soft brushes and water to fill the imperfections and holes that are created. Yet not disturbing the new work. Set up a horizontal rail to use as a positioning tool to gauge and keep correct distance and depth of the work while using the template.
Check out the tools used in the picture under "gypsum plaster" here: http://www.nps.gov/history/hps/tps/briefs/brief21.htm Just hold control key while tapping the plus/equal key 7-9 times in a row, to enlarge. Control- minus keys to go back.
Be safe, Gary

Lovegasoline 10-27-2009 03:26 AM

Interesting Gary!

It's hard to make out the images of the tools and their function though.

I think there's a misunderstanding: yes, the moulding is made of wood, 1/4" x 1/4" cross section...I'm not planning on using the wood as a template, but rather, to use it as the ACTUAL edge of the ceiling lip. That is to say, I will nail/glue this wood strip along the uneven 1/4" lip that runs around the ceiling perimeter. When painted, no one will know it is not plaster and it will provide a crisp sharp edge, as well as uniform thickness and straightness. That's the concept anyway...it's untested.

I have about 65 linear feet of this 1/4" lip to fix and joint compound seems too unruly to be able to crisply sculpt. I tired laying some on and going over it with putty knives but it is an exercise in futility...it would be EPIC to do a whole room and I can't manage to get a crisp lip...

I figure I'll permanently affix the wood moulding against the degraded lip and then blend the resultant seam into the ceiling with compound. My concerns are that the compound sticks to the wood (I'll use the Cover Stain as per you rec.) and that the wood sticks to the ceiling: the wood will be fixed with a pneumatic nail gun and Liquid Nails adhesive...that's the plan. The ceiling is plaster on metal lathe, I'm hoping the nails will work and also not fragment the plaster ... and that the Liquid Nails will stick...the ceiling has been skim coated a week ago with a mix of joint compound/plaster.

If you have any recommendations on doing this with compound and template, please post. I need to do this within a day or two. I'm looking for a quick and dirty (but crisp!) solution.

CustomBuild 10-27-2009 08:35 AM

It seems that there has been a considerable amount of thought put into this project, as I replied to the post last week, when you were considering using the wood as a template, and you didn't want the compound to stick to the wood for later removal. So I hesitate in causing the thinking process to go into a different direction. But hey, what is a discussion forum for? So here goes. What about using standard corner bead? If you use the plastic type, you can score and snap off one side of the bead, and use 3M spray tack to hold it in place, so as not to crack the plaster. You can snap a chalk line to keep it straight(or use a laser line). And if you are worried about cracking where the edge of the corner bead meets the ceiling, just treat it as a joint, and tape it.

Lovegasoline 10-27-2009 01:39 PM

Well, as I was trying out a template backer board (that compound would NOT stick to) it didn't seem to work so well.

I'm back in the huddle and rethinking strategies. I do not want to re-invent the wheel, but there seems to be little left by way of traditional plaster mastery skills out there (and in here) that I can connect with.

Also, I'm working on other things while I get my options clear....but 'll need to knock this out fairly soon and quickly...the next day or two. I've not worked with corner bead before but it seems like another viable option. I do not recall seeing plastic bead - only metal - I wonder if Home Depot has it in plastic. It might work. I'm trying to find a solution that doesn't involve interminable reworking with compound to get the edge clean. But, the corner bead solution is similar to the 1/4" moulding idea. My only hesitation is it might be too time consuming working compound on 65 feet of the clipped side of the corner bead and getting the edge perpendicular and clean.

I'll need to experiment with the molding and the corner bear to see if it will fly.

There has to be a simple tool that produces this profile in the plaster. What did plasters do 80 years ago when they had to knock out room after room of this stuff?

CustomBuild 10-27-2009 09:53 PM

I am constantly asking myself: how did the old guys do this so efficiently, when I have every modern invention known to man at my fingertips. The answer is simple. When you have a family to feed, and you are getting paid piecework, then ya get good at it. Good luck. When it is all said and done, we gotta see before/after pics.

chrisn 10-28-2009 04:02 AM

After the repair, the room will be painted with Behr latex primer and Benjamin Moore latex top coat.

After all the effort doing what you are doing,I would strongly recommend that you not turn it into a nightmare by using cheap primer( Behr). You are using BM topcoat, so while there get a gallon of Fresh Start primer and do the job right.

"better to leave the walls bare than put Behr on the walls":yes:

Lovegasoline 10-28-2009 12:27 PM

Is Behr primer that bad?

I d not own, I rent. This is my apartment. However, I have lived here a quarter century and will likely live the rest of my life here.

The owner has provided the 5 gallons of primer free, that's why I'm using it*.
Do you think it is really worth it to spend my own money to avoid the Behr primer? I have declined the offer of the free Behr paint and am buying my own BM top coat, Regal in either flat or matte.


*Owner also gave me a gallon of California Paints Zero VOC Primer.

user1007 10-28-2009 01:52 PM

I do not know what the California Paints brand is about so will leave that up to you. Do not use the Behr though especially since you are planning to put a nice top coat product on after. I would use one of the Benjamin Moore primers. It is senseless to put a nice paint on an absolutely crappy primer.

Lovegasoline 10-28-2009 05:03 PM

Here's the California Primer:

http://www.centralpaintonline.com/se...ERO-VOC/Detail

I've heard so much bad about Behr paint, I'm steering clear. But what are the specific faults of their primer? This is going over new joint compound/skim coated walls.

I mean, it's free. Is it so bad as to reject it?

chrisn 10-28-2009 05:58 PM

[quote=Lovegasoline;346617]Here's the California Primer:

http://www.centralpaintonline.com/se...ERO-VOC/Detail

I've heard so much bad about Behr paint, I'm steering clear. But what are the specific faults of their primer? This is going over new joint compound/skim coated walls.

You want the primer to stick,right?

I mean, it's free. Is it so bad as to reject it?[/quote]

Absolutly,you said you were probably staying there,so just do it right and it should last 10 or more years.

The California primer should be fine,anything would be better than the big bad bear.

Lovegasoline 10-28-2009 08:58 PM

I appreciate the advice, Iím just interested - empirically (other than myth, as I know Behr has itís loyal bashers): what precisely is so bad about the Behr primer?

Iím an artist, fine artist primary medium oils, though I have worked allot in acylics as well. In high grade artists oil paint, you are paying for purity and density of materials: high grade pigments, generally no or little fillers, quality oil. Itís consistent in quality. An artist may like one brand over another due to how they work.

What is so absolutely bad about Behr primer that I should refuse the gift of as much free Behr primer as I can use? Is the benefit of a BM primer going to offset an unlimited free supply of the Behr, and if yes, how so? I have little money left to spend on more renovation materials in a building I do not own, but if itís an irretrievable error to use the Behr, please tell me why.

Man how insidious is THIS? It started as a thread to solve a plastering issue and ends on a Behr bashing note!


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