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Old 12-14-2013, 05:42 PM   #1
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


OK, so I've moved on to my master bathroom. What should I find but the expected water damage. This was anticipated based on repairs I noted when I purchased the house. As you can see from the crawl space, they nailed PT lumber perpendicular to the T&G subfloor and used that as foundation for PT subfloor replacement above. (see below).

West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-img_20131214_142235_280.jpg

West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-img_20131214_142347_411.jpg

West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-img_20131214_142406_381.jpg

Here you can see when all the previous flooring was removed. There is still a decent amount of rot that I dug out that was never repaired.

West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-img_20131214_141812_724.jpg

West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-img_20131214_142716_700.jpg

West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-img_20131214_142725_485.jpg


Question:

Subfloor is ~50" on center post and beam construction with 4X8" beams as I recall. Will it be a sound repair to just remove this area of subfloor from the beam to beam near shower drain and replace using the existing beams as foundation for the new 2x boards? When I remove the old lumber this should give me approx 2" of beam to lay and nail new subfloor. Is it recommended that I add any nailers to the beams for extra support?

(I'll attach a diagram in reply showing what I am proposing)


Last edited by Didymus21; 12-14-2013 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:13 PM   #2
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


Here are the proposed diagrams. If this is sound, should I use PT lumber or regular? Should I include the nailer, or can that be avoided? Lastly, Do I have to use T&G for replacement, or can it just be 2x without the T&G?

For what it's worth, the majority of this area will be supporting a tiled shower.
West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-post-beam-above.jpg

West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-post-beam-angle.jpg

Or, would I want to include a nailer on the beam, too?
West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-post-beam-nailer.jpg


Last edited by Didymus21; 12-14-2013 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:07 PM   #3
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


All that subflooring needs to be cut out and replaced.
Why would you not want to use T & G? Only way to get a non flexing floor.
No way would you ever use pressure treated as a subfloor !!
It's full of voids, loves to delaminate, shrinks as it dries out, you would have to use nothing but ACQ fasteners.
Sure looks like in those drawings your showing using 4 X 4's as supports. Big mistake.
They curl, shrink and twist.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:28 PM   #4
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Sure looks like in those drawings your showing using 4 X 4's as supports. Big mistake.
They curl, shrink and twist.
4X4's as supports? I'm assuming you're referring to the dark brown "beams" or beige "posts" which were only placed there to represent the post and beam construction I have. I should have mentioned those aspects of the sketch are NOT to scale and are only in the sketch to help the visual.

The question I have refers to only the gray boards which show how I propose to add the new subflooring when I cut out the old rotten boards.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:42 PM   #5
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


Something's messed up with that whole floor.
It looks like those old boards are not even sitting on top of the floor joist, looks like there beside them.
To tile a floor it has to be perfectly flat and not flex at all.
Just patching in a bunch 1 X's is just asking for trouble.
Tiling is a one shot deal.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:53 PM   #6
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


I use to frame that system many, many years ago('78) in Portland. can you still find T&G decking?

I can't see details while viewing on my phone but I'd think about framing the floor area with 2x6 joists between the 4x6's. Then build up the sub floor with plywood- 2 layers of 3/4
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:00 PM   #7
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEplumber View Post
I use to frame that system many, many years ago('78) in Portland. can you still find T&G decking?

I can't see details while viewing on my phone but I'd think about framing the floor area with 2x6 joists between the 4x6's. Then build up the sub floor with plywood- 2 layers of 3/4
Yes, my plan would be to do some 2X6 joist work to toughen the subfloor prior to tiling. I just want to make sure the 2x T & G replacement idea I had would work well. 3/4" plywood would go above this T&G before tiling, too. I was planning to submit my ideas for toughening the floor in a separate post...or in this thread after I resolve the subfloor issue.

Oh, and it does appear you can still buy 2x T & G decking at our local home depot, and likely the local lumber yards. All they have in home depot is the
"white wood" decking. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded...6581/100001732

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Old 12-14-2013, 08:04 PM   #8
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Something's messed up with that whole floor.
It looks like those old boards are not even sitting on top of the floor joist, looks like there beside them.
To tile a floor it has to be perfectly flat and not flex at all.
Just patching in a bunch 1 X's is just asking for trouble.
Tiling is a one shot deal.
Yes, the old boards...or rather, old "replacement" boards that were used do NOT sit on the beams on one side. The previous homeowner chose to make a quick fix and use a nailer secured to the floor only, to hold up one end of the replacement T&G he used. Apparently this is common practice for repairs on post and beam. Doesn't mean it's right...but I've seen it mentioned in some other forums. Not sure what you mean by "patching in a bunch of 1 x's. I'd be replacing from beam to beam with ~4 foot 2X6 decking, like in my drawing.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:42 PM   #9
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


This is what the floor currently looks like. You can see old board are in green and previous owners "patch" with PT lumber is in gray. Maybe that will help show how my design differs.

Current floor
West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-nailer-2.jpg

Current floor
West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-nailers.jpg


This is the design I am proposing once I tear out the rotted wood

West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-post-beam-angle.jpg
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:42 PM   #10
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


No, it would not meet code minimum, spruce (white wood) is rated at E 1,400,000; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_5_sec003.htm

That s the #2 grade; http://www.awc.org/technical/spantables/tutorial.php

You should still add some framing to reduce the deflection as you are only single-span, pp. 17; http://www.awc.org/pdf/wcd4.pdf

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Old 12-15-2013, 01:31 AM   #11
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in WA View Post
No, it would not meet code minimum, spruce (white wood) is rated at E 1,400,000; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_5_sec003.htm

That s the #2 grade; http://www.awc.org/technical/spantables/tutorial.php

You should still add some framing to reduce the deflection as you are only single-span, pp. 17; http://www.awc.org/pdf/wcd4.pdf

Gary
Thanks for including the links. For whatever reason, I was having difficulty locating where it specifically mentioned spruce as not meeting the code minimum for the 48-50" span with 3/4" plywood over top. I'll take your word for it and attempt to find T & G that is of a stronger grade. Any recommendation? The original decking almost looks like a cedar/redwood...smells like cedar when cut.
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:50 PM   #12
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


Sorry, it is in the second link; "Step 3 Wood Design Values: Now you must select a wood species and grade that meets the required Fb and E values, and that's available in your area. For this, use the tables in Design Values for Joists and Rafters. For this example, I've excerpted the relevant sections from tables for hem-fir, Douglas fir-larch, and spruce-pine-fir (Figure 4)." Table 4 shows the M of E values in right-hand column. I doubt your box store grade is better than #2; http://www.awc.org/technical/spantables/tutorial.php

Try a real lumber yard. Codes were a lot more lenient back then (they may have used Cedar; even lower M/E, I framed two houses with floor and the roof similar to yours in '80 and that was way too much work- never again, lol.

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Old 12-15-2013, 04:16 PM   #13
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Thanks! Yes....does seem like a bear of a project to frame a whole house like this.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in WA View Post
Sorry, it is in the second link; "Step 3 Wood Design Values: Now you must select a wood species and grade that meets the required Fb and E values, and that's available in your area. For this, use the tables in Design Values for Joists and Rafters. For this example, I've excerpted the relevant sections from tables for hem-fir, Douglas fir-larch, and spruce-pine-fir (Figure 4)." Table 4 shows the M of E values in right-hand column. I doubt your box store grade is better than #2; http://www.awc.org/technical/spantables/tutorial.php

Try a real lumber yard. Codes were a lot more lenient back then (they may have used Cedar; even lower M/E, I framed two houses with floor and the roof similar to yours in '80 and that was way too much work- never again, lol.

Gary
Any clue where I'd find more wood like this? It almost appears to be 2X7 T&G...should I just bring a chunk to the local lumber yard/PARR and see what they say?

West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-img_20131216_094607_849.jpg

West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!-img_20131216_094549_885.jpg
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:12 PM   #15
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West Coast Post and Beam subfloor repair help!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Didymus21 View Post
It almost appears to be 2X7 T&G...should I just bring a chunk to the local lumber yard/PARR and see what they say?
For sure. Around there, T&G lumber is simply not available at box stores. If your local lumber yards don't have it, they should be able to point you to a local mill that can make it for you. Naturally, anything custom is likely to be pricey, but that's life.

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