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doogie88 09-20-2008 06:26 PM

Water seeped through tiles in shower, wall ruined, need help.
 
4 Attachment(s)
Hello.
After finding water in the basement, I found out water has been seeping through cracks in the grout in the shower, and has pretty much ruined the whole back wall. This wall is facing outside, ie it's outside on the other side of the wall. The beams and insulation appears to be dry. Pretty much the whole wall was wet, so we took it all down. A little part of the wall the shower is on is wet, about 1' x 1'. Opposite wall looks fine.

We decided since it needs to be fixed, we'll probably put up new tile anyways, and possibly get a new tub since we are doing all this work.

What do I need to do?
I read we should use some type of cement board, but how does cement board work? Would I just use cement board as high as I will be tiling? Or do I use cement board right to the ceiling?

What do I do about the 1'x1' piece that is wet? Cut it out and replace it? Or should I be replacing all parts of the shower walls with some type of cement board instead?

Also there are some screws in the very corner on the edge, that I guess were put in as that wall was the first wall installed. How can I get those screws out? They are sticking out about an inch.

Pictures attached.
Red is the water on the shower wall, blue is the screws.
Thank you for any guidance. I'm not very handy so simple terms is best for me :P
Please move to appropriate forum if this isn't the one, had no idea where to put it.

Termite 09-20-2008 07:01 PM

Looks like a total re-do is in order. Cement backerboard will be what you need. You only install it where you're going to tile, and slightly overlap the top and outside tiles over mold resistant sheetrock.

You install 1/2" cement board with special backerboard screws. After installing the board, you must mud and tape the seams with fiberglass mesh backerboard tape and thinset. It does not have to look good, but must be done at all seams and corners to prevent cracking. The backerboard will come right to the new tub's lip, but not touching or overlapping. This gap should be caulked before tiling.

After that, the backerboard must be waterproofed, because as you now know, tile and grout are not waterproof. Backerboard won't be harmed if it gets wet repeatedly, but the wall it is mounted on will mold for sure. The easiest method is a product called RedGuard, which is a paint on red goop that will keep moisture from penetrating the backerboard. It is applied with a brush or roller to the exposed face and all the seams and corners. If you skip this step, you'll be replacing the entire shower again in a few years.

Another alternative to RedGuard is an applied membrane called Kerdi. It is awesome stuff and will never leak. It is pricey, but can be done by a DIYer if they do their homework. Youtube has some Kerdi videos. It is the best system out there in my opinion.

You'll use thinset to attach your new tiles. Don't buy the pre-mixed crap. Use good quality dry mix thinset. For walls, I really like the non-sag thinset that you can get at tile supply shops. Combined with spacers, it makes it easier to keep the tiles in place while the thinset dries. The trowel you'll use depends on the size of tiles.

If you come across questions, we're here to help.

Termite 09-20-2008 07:02 PM

It is also an opportune time to replace the plumbing in the shower, since you'll be tearing the existing wallboard down.

Termite 09-20-2008 07:03 PM

The screws can probably be backed out with a screwdriver. If not, bend and break them with pliers.

All the wallboard has to go. The only wallboard that should be left in place is the stuff that won't have tile on it. Sheetrock wallboard should never, never be used behind tile in wet applications.

doogie88 09-20-2008 09:47 PM

Awesome thank you very much.
I think you answered every single question and concern I had.
One more question actually, what does one cut cement board with? Actually, what all types of saws would I need?
Also, what type of screws for the mold resistance sheetrock (above the tiling)?
Also, is the cement board the same thickness as the wallboard? And would I put the fibreglass mesh tape on the gap of the cementboard and wallboard/sheetrock?

Termite 09-20-2008 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doogie88 (Post 159860)
One more question actually, what does one cut cement board with?
You can score it with a utility knife and then break it, but it is a pain. I prefer to install an inexpensive abrasive masonry blade in my circular saw and cut it that way. It makes crazy amounts of dust, but cuts very cleanly that way. Holes for plumbing are made by scoring the face of it with a knife and hitting it with a hammer when it is laying flat on your garage slab or another flat surface. A $15 drywall square makes cutting straight lines much easier.

Actually, what all types of saws would I need?
You can get away with none at all.

Also, what type of screws for the mold resistance sheetrock (above the tiling)?
1-1/4" drywall screws will do just fine for sheetrock. Be sure to use backerboard screws for the wonderboard/durarock...Drywall screws are no good for that.

Also, is the cement board the same thickness as the wallboard?
Yes, both are 1/2"

And would I put the fibreglass mesh tape on the gap of the cementboard and wallboard/sheetrock?
Not necessary. You'll overlap the tile over the sheetrock very slightly so the joint between the wonderboard and the sheetrock is hidden.

Hope this clears everything up. Feel free to ask any other questions you encounter!

doogie88 09-21-2008 12:07 AM

Thank you!
You are unbelievable!

Termite 09-21-2008 10:12 AM

You're welcome. Have fun with it.

jonblack 09-21-2008 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite (Post 159829)
... The backerboard will come right to the new tub's lip, but not touching or overlapping. This gap should be caulked before tiling..

Why is it that you don't want this to touch or overlap?

jonblack

gregzoll 09-21-2008 12:51 PM

Because if water gets under the Caulk, it will weep up the board. The same when you place Drywall in a basement, or with a chair rail, leave a small gap, especially with the Chair rail. You would only have to replace the lower 4', not all if there is water damage on the lower part.

doogie88 09-21-2008 05:04 PM

One more quick question.
There is about 3" beside the tub, to the flooring, that had tile on it. Should I just keep that as drywall or whatever it is? Or should I somehow cut that out and put the cement board there? If so, what do I do if there is nothing to nail it into?

gregzoll 09-21-2008 07:20 PM

Anything that Tile will be adhered to, should be Cement Board, and everything else, should be Paperless Gypsum. Personally, I would gut the whole Bathroom, and do it right, which is what we will have to do with ours, in order to get rid of all of the tile in it, and redo the wiring.

doogie88 09-21-2008 07:31 PM

But I mean it is like a 3" x 15" piece I need to put cement board in. How do I cut it for that? and what do I screw it into if there is no beam there?

Also, what do I put on the seam of the cement board and mold resistant sheetrock? And should I be cutting out the sheetrock where the shower head is, above where the tile is going to go and put mold resistant sheetrock there? Or just keep the sheetrock there?

And how do I cut out holes for the bath spout and handles in the cement board?

Termite 09-21-2008 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doogie88 (Post 160073)
But I mean it is like a 3" x 15" piece I need to put cement board in. How do I cut it for that? and what do I screw it into if there is no beam there?
If it is not in a wet area and the sheetrock is in good shape, there's no reason you can't stick tile to sheetrock. Just do a very good job of caulking the tub to the tile. If it is a wet area, cut out the sheetrock and install the necessary wood blocking to fasten replacement backerboard and sheetrock to. Your seams should always land on studs or blocking.

Also, what do I put on the seam of the cement board and mold resistant sheetrock?
You can fill it with thinset when you tile, but it is no big deal. Done correctly, the seam won't be a big gap at all. It should be fairly tight. You won't see it because it'll be covered with tile.

And should I be cutting out the sheetrock where the shower head is, above where the tile is going to go and put mold resistant sheetrock there? Or just keep the sheetrock there?
If you're up to it, I'd suggest removing all the sheetrock from the shower walls and replacing it. You can replace the ceiling or overlay another sheet of rock over it. You'd be crazy to not replace the mixing valve and pipes concealed within the walls since you have everything opened up. As for the shower head, you can leave it or you can tile all the way up to the ceiling. Personally, I think that's the way to go.

And how do I cut out holes for the bath spout and handles in the cement board?
The best way is to use a diamond tipped holesaw that goes in a drill. They're about $15 at HD or Lowes. For the larger hole you'll need for the mixing valve, use a utility knife to score the heck out of the cement board in the shape of a circle. Lay the sheet on a concrete floor with the scored face up, and hit the area with a hammer 4 or 5 times to break the concrete. Flip it over and use a knife to cut the mesh face and trim it up. It isn't super-neat, but it works fine. If you have an angle grinder you can use it to cut the hole instead.

And FYI...Mold resistant paper faced sheetrock is the industry standard for bathrooms, provided it isn't used in wet areas. Unless you feel like taking on the task of sheetrocking the entire room, I don't see any reason to gut the bathroom completely. Taping and finishing drywall properly takes a heck of a lot of skill, and isn't something I'd suggest doing unless you need to. I'd take care of that shower area and call it good. :yes:

doogie88 09-21-2008 10:50 PM

Thank you so much for your thorough answers, and patience with me! I appreciate it so much.
Okay, I have some pictures. I took all the wall down in the shower.
But, I don't know how far to go? To the next beam?

1) The sheetrock beside the tub turned out to be wet and mushy, as well as much more of it, as you will see. Should I cut out right to the next beam, which I guess would be a couple feet? And put the moisture resistant sheetrock from that beam to the one at the shower? then put the concrete board for the rest? The boards you see beside the beams now, are not very sturdy.

2) My floor is ruined, wet from a week ago, and warped/bubbling, do I need to replace my whole floor (floorboard?)? My bathroom IS pretty small. 8' x 5' I believe. Or could I just cut out 2 1/2' and put a sheet of concrete board there?

3) What do I used to cut the wall straight and level so I can match up the new moisture resistant sheetrock with it? Drywall saw?

4) The plastic covering the insulation now has some holes in it form all the screws. Are those important? Do I need to patch them up or replastic? Or the face that I will have sealed concrete board be ok?

Thank you so much!


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