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Old 09-09-2010, 07:30 PM   #1
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water proofing the basement from the outside


i have some time, a year or maybe more before i start this project. but it has been on my mind and i am doing some preliminary research.

i have 100+ old home with rubble stone foundation. i do not know what type of mortar is used, but it all seems in good condition. i would like to improve the water proof ability of my foundation so my basement doesn't get wet after it has been finished (several years from now).

i am interesting in learning more about appropriate products, water drain systems, and general methods.

my neighbour did a similar project recently and he said that his foundation wall looked the same, and when he dug a trench he only had to go down 4' to find the bottom. there was no footing. so i suspect to find the same.

so this is my plan so far (in work):
- hire excavator to dig a 4' deep trench 2' wide around the house (no slope on the excavaton unless going deeper than 4'). do not excavate around the front door area as i do not want to disturb my fully floating portch. this means no waterproofing in this area... to bad..
- pressure wash the wall
- inspect for cracks and fill with TBD
- inspect for lose motar, chip away any and replace with mortar mix from HD
- hire shot cement guy to spray the rubble stone foundation wall with parge mix. hope he can make it relatively flat.
- trowel on water proof membrade of type TBD extending to 8" above grade.
- pour 6" of lose gravel along base of wall
- lay white plastic tube with the holes drilled into it (available from HD) along base of wall with a slope towards back of house
- direct water to a "dry pit" in backyard. guess i need the excavation guy to dig this path?
- build a dry pit ... somehow? no idea how yet.
- backfill
- done

simple right?

Knucklez

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Old 09-14-2010, 07:59 PM   #2
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water proofing the basement from the outside


or a good book recommendation.

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Old 09-14-2010, 08:19 PM   #3
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water proofing the basement from the outside


If you have not done so, suggest you first do all you can to control surface runoff on the outside (which is what I am now doing)

Building Science Corp has experimented and published articles on various ways to do what you want to do from the INSIDE of the basement.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:22 PM   #4
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water proofing the basement from the outside


from the inside.. yes i plan on that too.. but that will happen in "phase 2" of the basement project. i will post much on that subject when i get there.

for now, i am focusing on the outside solution as i think (IMO) that it is the best solution, stop the problem at the source.

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Old 09-16-2010, 06:40 PM   #5
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water proofing the basement from the outside


works for me, please post pics when the foundation is all dug out.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:23 PM   #6
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water proofing the basement from the outside


From the library: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...ent-insulation

http://www.buildingfoundation.umn.ed...timum-main.htm

http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...ting-basements

http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/ibp/ir.../ctus-n36.html

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks...32b8af52b7e0b8

Drainage: http://www.servicemagic.com/article....age.13702.html

http://www.easydigging.com/Drainage/pipe_tile.html

Drywells: http://www.easydigging.com/Drainage/..._soakaway.html

http://pwd.org/pdf/water_resources/c.../dry_wells.pdf
Read those tonight and I’ll give you some more……..

Gary
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Old 09-19-2010, 06:53 PM   #7
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water proofing the basement from the outside


the last picture on this link

http://www.servicemagic.com/article....age.13702.html

shows the exterior drain pipe going through the footing to an interior sump pump (and which is connected to the interior drain system of similar style). i like this concept as i think it works well for me. but i do not have a footing on this old house (to be confirmed when digging). so i think i would have to U-notch the stone at the bottom of the wall (4' below grade) to run a pipe through it. maybe this is not such a good idea. will weaken the structure, and i am sure i will not do a good job of sealing the new hole. ..

but got lots of stuff to think about, thanks.

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Old 09-20-2010, 07:27 AM   #8
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water proofing the basement from the outside


in 38 yrs, i can recall 2 jobs where we brought exterior collected wtr inside to a sump & pump,,, however, we've installed 6 ext pumps here in atl in the last yr,,, im-n-s-h-fo, if its outside now, leave it outside

take a look on our w/site for a proper ext system,,, IF your grading allows, gravity's your best friend,,, NO cementitious coating - no elastomeric qualities,,, either spray-applied wtr-based polymer-modified rubberized/asphalt OR troweled-on roofing cement protected by miradrain/deltadrain/yada-yada-yada,,, do NOT forget the filter cloth fabric AND a cleanout/standpipe at the high end for flushing the system easily.

properly done, you won't have to worry about interior work.
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:00 PM   #9
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water proofing the basement from the outside


Why do you like the interior option?
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:50 PM   #10
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water proofing the basement from the outside


'eel, if you're talkin' to me, i have no personal preference,,, we do this work for a living &, often, $$$ makes the decision for our clients,,, we always recommend the best solution but it ain't OUR house OR our wallet

if you're NOT talkin' to me, oh - NEVERRRRRRRMIND ( said in my best roseanne roseannadanna voice )
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:07 PM   #11
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water proofing the basement from the outside


I was talking to the OP, Knucklez.... keeping it all outside seems to make so much sense I was curious about what conditions at the site make the interior option seem better to the OP. Maybe I'm missing something (which is quite possible!)
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Old 09-25-2010, 04:43 PM   #12
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water proofing the basement from the outside


i'm doing it from the outside (hence the thread title).

but my foundation wall is not flat, it is rubble stone. wondering how that changes methods?

itsreallycon - you said "NO cementitious coating" does that mean my step (see OP) is wrong?
i mean this step:

- hire shot cement guy to spray the rubble stone foundation wall with parge mix. hope he can make it relatively flat.

?
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Last edited by Knucklez; 09-25-2010 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:32 PM   #13
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water proofing the basement from the outside


nope, not a bit since you're doing it correctly from the exterior,,, shotcrete's a good item but i'd be spraying the parge over mechanically attached expanded wire mesh for best results.

congrats for not taking the cheap way out as do most h/o's. awhile the nozzleman's important, a good trowel man can get flat walls for you.
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Old 09-25-2010, 06:45 PM   #14
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water proofing the basement from the outside


You need to pay attention to both the interior and exterior if you want a finishable basement.

On the exterior you need as reasonably good coating, granular well draining backfill full height to reduce the loads on the walls and allow the moisture to drain down to drain tile. Surface water control using gutters and long downspout extension are a given requirement.

On the interior, drain tile inside does a much better job of reducing the upward pressure and cracking of the slab and collecting water a lowering the local water table. Lack of interior subsurface control is the reason for the classic leaks into a basement at the junction of the wall and floor. Connecting the interior and exterior drain tile provide tremendous insurance at minimal cost.

I had a friend that built about 5,000 homes (medium price) and never wanted a complaint about leaky basements. He installed connected interior and exterior drain tile at the level (actually slightly lower) than the footings. Doing it during construction was cheap and all his crews automatically put in the system after the footings were poured. He even had pre-cut flexible poly (to drain tile rock delivered to every site with the other pvc drain tile and it was installed before any backfilling and usually the same day as the footings were poured. He never had a complaint while his competitors (selling homes at the same price) were fighting with owners about leakage since they did not understand or bother to plan.
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:57 PM   #15
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water proofing the basement from the outside


Quote:
mechanically attached expanded wire mesh
good suggestion thanks. now, how do i attach this wire to STONE ? i know there are explosion guns that can hammer a spike into stone, but i wouldn't want to expose my foundation wall to that sort of sudden impact, way to scared for something like that.

Quote:
granular well draining backfill full height to reduce the loads
do you mean, back fill with pebble stone rather than the dirt i excavated? i'm sure this would be ideal.. but way to expensive vs. the value don't you think?

Quote:
Connecting the interior and exterior drain tile provide tremendous insurance at minimal cost.
probably true, but i'm not sure how i can do this on my house. i do not have a footing and i do not want to punch a hole through the foundation wall (need all the strength i can get). so the only option is to dig UNDER the foundation wall. but i need to give the wall directly above this pass through some support (recall no footing), so i would actually have to underpin this area and have the sump-pump connection interior to exterior plastic pipe set in this newly poored footing (just a small rectangle under the wall). i think this is beyond my DIY skill. would rather just have an exterior system and interior system separate, not connected.

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