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Old 03-30-2013, 02:18 PM   #1
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Water pipe to place in creek bed


Hey there,

We have an issue that is potentially going to cause us to lose our home. Our creek has widened to the point that it is 15-20 ft. from the foundation of the house. I've contacted the Sanitation District and Division of Water, had more than enough Civil Engineers come out and no one wants to take on the project, sent many letters and even had the local news involved. The EPA has told us, without directly saying so, that we could put a pipe in the creek as long as the bottom of the pipe is exposed, sort of a "staple" shape rather than circular. No Civil Engineer wants the project (probably since they would actually have to engineer something). The last and only step would be to have a lawyer get involved.

I have people with the right equipment and know how to make this a DIY. Does anyone know where/who to contact to get pricing on a pipe such as this, a website or a phone number? I have scoured the internet and sent emails out and no one knows. The Civil Engineers told me that that style of pipe does exist, but they will not return our phone calls to point us in the right direction.

It would have to be about 40"-45" in diameter and 50' - 60' in length.

Any help would be great.

- Kevin

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Old 03-30-2013, 02:30 PM   #2
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Water pipe to place in creek bed


If you expect a civil engineer to actually get involved in your project, you might start by being a little less rude about the profession. As a professional engineer, I would not want your job either if your position is that "I might actually have to engineer something". That is what engineers do, so if you have managed to put off as many engineers as you say you have, you might reconsider your attitude.

I can't tell from your description exactly what it is you are trying to do, but if you want to stabilize the creek so it does not migrate further towards your house, there are numerous options, including a vast array of bank stabilization products that any civil engineer familiar with drainage and creek stabilization should be familiar with. These include rock gabions, fabric, soil stabilization matting, concrete mats, various types of retaining walls, and installation of a culvert, which is what I think you are talking about. But since you have posted no pictures, and your description is vague at best, it is impossible to discuss specific options.

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Old 03-30-2013, 04:15 PM   #3
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Water pipe to place in creek bed


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
If you expect a civil engineer to actually get involved in your project, you might start by being a little less rude about the profession. As a professional engineer, I would not want your job either if your position is that "I might actually have to engineer something". That is what engineers do, so if you have managed to put off as many engineers as you say you have, you might reconsider your attitude.

I can't tell from your description exactly what it is you are trying to do, but if you want to stabilize the creek so it does not migrate further towards your house, there are numerous options, including a vast array of bank stabilization products that any civil engineer familiar with drainage and creek stabilization should be familiar with. These include rock gabions, fabric, soil stabilization matting, concrete mats, various types of retaining walls, and installation of a culvert, which is what I think you are talking about. But since you have posted no pictures, and your description is vague at best, it is impossible to discuss specific options.
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:49 PM   #4
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Water pipe to place in creek bed


So what's this pipe suppost to be for?
A colvert for the creek to run through?
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:57 PM   #5
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Water pipe to place in creek bed


like everyone else I have no positive idea of what it is you want to do. it sounds like you are talking about installing a culvert/pipe for the creek to pass through and filling in the area around the pipe. if this is what you are trying to do it can be done, but it requires proper engineering and approvals of many different departments, commissions and agencies.

you may want to edit your profile to include your location, you get better information with that.

provide more information and you'll get better responses. Like my daddy used to say "you got to use cut bait when you go fishing"
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:36 PM   #6
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Water pipe to place in creek bed


<b>No Civil Engineer wants the project (probably since they would actually have to engineer something)</b>

kbach34, I am not going to say bad things to you for this.
My experience with engineers have never been great either.
I had a friend who was a retired engineer, he loved old cars and drove a 65 Ford as a daily driver. Motor went bad and I had a good motor that I sold him for a great price, price of a core but it was ready to use and run. He was in his late 60's I offered to install it for him.
Oh noes, he needed to engineer a concrete pad with a removable hoist to do the job.
*cough* Paul, this is Friday, I can bring a cherry picker over and in your driveway have the new/used motor installed in your car and running before Monday.
Paul replies, that he really does need the pad and a hoist for other projects.
So he is driving his fall back secondary car, '53 merc with a 2 gallon gas can in the back seat with a hose going to the fuel pump instead of using the rusted out fuel tank in the car.
Fast forward one year, the good 390 4 barrel motor is still sitting in the back yard and ruined, his 53 merc has a larger 5 gallon gas can sitting in the back seat.
He just needs time to engineer a better mouse trap for a cherry picker and a fuel tank.

Just saying, I have never seen any engineer jump up and run with the ball and get it done, takes months and sometimes years to engineer a new system.
No disrespect to Daniel Holzman, As a carpenter I have problems with architects also.
They love to design things, takes a carpenter to fix and revise the plans and make it work.
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:07 PM   #7
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Water pipe to place in creek bed


Thank you for the quick replies.

I wasn't directing it any specific Engineer on this forum, obviously. It is for the 2 or 3 privately owned and larger firm Civil Engineers that have come out to see the house. And I was nothing but respectful to them, even offered them drinks. One didn't even shake my hand when he left. The other never answers my phones calls just to touch base after he said he will do everything to find out. They want a good payout, and it seems "small" residential issues like this aren't cases they are interested in. Pure speculation.

I live in Independence, KY. Sorry I didn't clarify before.

Yes, I need a culvert/pipe (whether it is metal, PVC, HDPE, etc.) to run along the creek bed. The whole creek of our property measures to be somewhere around 110', whereas only 60' runs in front of the house.

Rip wrap, concrete, or other barriers involving restructuring the bank are not an option in my case. A pipe/culvert is the only way I will go. I have seen many, many homes' driveways/subdvision residential community entrances that have fully circular metal pipes with concrete "V" mouths for funneling water in. That is exactly what I need, nothing more, just slightly longer. The one I measured tonight on my way home was 80'. It had the exact structure I mentioned above, going under the street entryway to the subdivision. It was a naturally flowing body of water going for miles. The building group obtained a permit, just as every other private residence did along the road that was affected by the pipe. There is no reason I shouldn't be able to either. If, for whatever reason I cannot put a circular culvert/pipe in due to the creek bed being covered by the metal, then I would definitely go for a culvert that has the bottom exposed. A half-circle or a staple shape.

We are the only house on the entire street that is anywhere near the creek. No other house is or would be affected by putting in a culvert/pipe.

Letters have been written and phone calls have been made to the Division of Water, Sanitation District and the EPA. None wants to comply. None wants to take responsibility for allowing the original permit to build a house that close to an eroding body of water, either. The creek is virtually a straight line, so no significant Earth would have to be moved, just the sides leveled to allow a culvert to be placed in.

The creek was originally about 3 ft. deep and 4 ft. wide. It is now closer to 5 ft. deep and 10 ft. wide at the top, it's widest point. It is close to 7+ ft. at the base.

The idea is to put a pipe in the bed, somewhere around 40+" in diameter and 60' (at least) in length. It would have a concrete mouth to funnel the water coming in downstream. It would be backfilled with rock and dirt would be placed on top to create a backyard.

If I left anything else out, please let me know. Every response is helping me out.

Thank you again.

ABOUT THE PICTURES:

The first one is looking upstream from the right end of the property. That is where the pipe would open up. Everything to the left of that picture is the house, all the way to the bridge. That is about 60'.

The second picture is from the bridge looking upstream to the end of the property on the left. Where the creek bends is right about where the property starts. That is about 50'. Everything to the left of that is land and driveway. It would go untouched and not put the house in jeopardy.

The third picture is from the bridge looking downstream. The house is to the right, 20' from the foundation about 10' from the patio/deck. From that bridge to those small, black draining pipes is our property, about 60'.
Attached Thumbnails
Water pipe to place in creek bed-creek-1.jpg   Water pipe to place in creek bed-creek-2.jpg   Water pipe to place in creek bed-creek-3.jpg  

Last edited by KBACH34; 03-30-2013 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:23 PM   #8
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Water pipe to place in creek bed


The adjoining property visible in the photo doesn't seem to be having this problem . To me that would be a clue to the most reasonable and economical approach to solving the erosion problem .
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:40 PM   #9
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Water pipe to place in creek bed


I just found some new 48" x 20' steel culvert piping for about $2,000. We could do the whole creek for under $10,000 and at least in front of the house for $6,000. That is much, much cheaper than one of the Civil Engineers priced it at. He said we wouldn't get it for under $40,000.

Not mentioned yet is an easement drain culvert that runs from the street directly into that creek in our backyard. You can see a small part of it in the first photo, to the left of the bridge. Whoever approved that plan could be sued since they didn't run it directly downgrade of the land into the creek at the correct angle, but decided to cut it off from the street at a right angle, right into our property, emptying into our creek. That pipe is now sinking in and the Sanitation District have to replace it but refuse to. They are aware that it is their fault and are fighting like hell to ignore the problem.

If they would have ran that pipe correctly downgrade it would have missed our property completely. But their error brings ALL of the subdivision run-off into that culvert directly into our creek. Combined with the water already coming downstream it is causing rapid erosion.

Last edited by KBACH34; 03-30-2013 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:47 PM   #10
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Water pipe to place in creek bed


Sounds like it's lawyer time. Better to spend a few a little up front here to push the issue with them for their mistakes. Might not get the job done faster but would keep it from being solely out of your own pocket. Bearing in mind anything you did might potentially make matters worse. As in, they'd turn around and sue you for improper water management. Stranger things have happened...

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