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Old 03-22-2010, 03:54 PM   #16
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling


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Originally Posted by DIYHomeTheater View Post
That's great! Do you know if this arrangement is code-compliant for non-bearing walls? Also, how did you handle fire-blocking in this arrangement?
I am attaching a picture that reflects my understanding of what you wrote.
Thank you very much.
Close.

The one thing I'm doing different is that I do NOT have a top plate for the short wall hanging from the ceiling. To improve strengh, the 2x4s should be nailed directly to the side of the floor joists. That way, the short hanging wall will resist twisting from the wall pushing against it.

I asked my local building inspector if this was fine for a non-load bearing wall and he had no problem with the way I described it.
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling-bulkhead-20soffit.jpg  

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Old 03-22-2010, 07:56 PM   #17
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling


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Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
Close.

The one thing I'm doing different is that I do NOT have a top plate for the short wall hanging from the ceiling. To improve strengh, the 2x4s should be nailed directly to the side of the floor joists. That way, the short hanging wall will resist twisting from the wall pushing against it.

I asked my local building inspector if this was fine for a non-load bearing wall and he had no problem with the way I described it.
HooKooDooKu:
How did you handle fire blocking?
Thanks
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:14 AM   #18
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling


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HooKooDooKu:
How did you handle fire blocking?
Thanks
Haven't gotten that far yet.

First question is where exactly does it need fire blocking? There isn't a vertical to horizontal transistion in a concealed space because the main wall has a top plate and the drywall will go up to there.

Otherwise, my current plan calls for a drop ceiling, with the ceiling being about 2" below the horizontal parts of this soffit. So for me, it won't be a concealed space (beyond any fire blocking you are supposed to do above a drop ceiling).

And even if the plan was to cover the soffit with drywall, then the only fire blocking I can think that is needed is something every 10' of the run. For that, you can build up around HVAC (or what ever is inside the soffit) with 2x4s or 3/4" plywood, then use a fire block foam or caulk between the lumber and the "stuff" inside the soffit.

The only other place I can think you would need fire block is between the floor joist (there's your vertical to horizonal transistion), and again, 2x4 lumber between floor joist against the hanging 2x4s.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:45 AM   #19
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling


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The only other place I can think you would need fire block is between the floor joist (there's your vertical to horizonal transistion), and again, 2x4 lumber between floor joist against the hanging 2x4s.
correct. the idea is to block any free air flow that a fire can use to rapidly spread.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:06 AM   #20
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling


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Haven't gotten that far yet.

First question is where exactly does it need fire blocking? There isn't a vertical to horizontal transistion in a concealed space because the main wall has a top plate and the drywall will go up to there.

Otherwise, my current plan calls for a drop ceiling, with the ceiling being about 2" below the horizontal parts of this soffit. So for me, it won't be a concealed space (beyond any fire blocking you are supposed to do above a drop ceiling).

And even if the plan was to cover the soffit with drywall, then the only fire blocking I can think that is needed is something every 10' of the run. For that, you can build up around HVAC (or what ever is inside the soffit) with 2x4s or 3/4" plywood, then use a fire block foam or caulk between the lumber and the "stuff" inside the soffit.

The only other place I can think you would need fire block is between the floor joist (there's your vertical to horizonal transistion), and again, 2x4 lumber between floor joist against the hanging 2x4s.
I asked the same question on a fire-blocking thread, and I received a response that basically implied that I needed to fire block at the top plate of the short wall. Thanks.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:28 AM   #21
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling


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I asked the same question on a fire-blocking thread, and I received a response that basically implied that I needed to fire block at the top plate of the short wall. Thanks.
Llike I showed... there is not top plate with my design. But the concept still holds, just block the floor joists. Guess it's time to pick up a few 2x8s on the way home today.
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling-bulkheadfireblock.jpg  

Last edited by HooKooDooKu; 03-23-2010 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:54 AM   #22
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling


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Llike I showed... there is not top plate with my design. But the concept still holds, just block the floor joists. Guess it's time to pick up a few 2x8s on the way home today.
This is what I inferred from your earlier post that stated, "Framed a 2x4 wall against the basement wall. The top of the top plate for this wall was at a heigth...". So, I assumed that you did have a top plate for the short wall. By the way, my wall will be 21 feet long. Is that OK structurally?

I am trying to understand your arrangement. If you don't have a top plate on the short wall, then your 2" width of the short wall stud is supporting a 4" width of the soffit bottom framing member. That is not a perfect match. A top plate would have given greater contact area, right?

Also, I have TJI engineered I-beams for floor joists. Nailing soffit member directly to I-beams will present only a limited surface contact area because of the I-beam flange. Would a top plate in this situation not be beneficial?

A photo of your solution will be very helpful.

Thank you

Last edited by DIYHomeTheater; 03-23-2010 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:12 PM   #23
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling


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I am trying to understand your arrangement. If you don't have a top plate on the short wall, then your 2" width of the short wall stud is supporting a 4" width of the soffit bottom framing member. That is not a perfect match. A top plate would have given greater contact area, right?
Perhaps you've got the orientation of the 2x4 on the short wall wrong.

Keep in mind that the floor joists are perpendicular to the wall as shown in your original drawing. There is no top plate because the 2x4s of the short wall extend up into the floor joist space. The 4" face of the 2x4s are nailed to the face of the floor joists. While there isn't a top plate, there is a bottom plate. The top plate of the main wall connects to the bottom plate of the short wall with 2x4s laid flat.



As for your engineered wood, if its the classic I beam, then you can still do your 2x4 short wall just like I did, except that you will be limited to nailing at the top and bottom of the floor joist. But that's still good because that gives a long moment arm to resist the wall getting pushed sideways.



Now if your floor joist ran parallel to the wall, here's how I would frame it up.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:01 PM   #24
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling


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Perhaps you've got the orientation of the 2x4 on the short wall wrong.

Keep in mind that the floor joists are perpendicular to the wall as shown in your original drawing. There is no top plate because the 2x4s of the short wall extend up into the floor joist space. The 4" face of the 2x4s are nailed to the face of the floor joists. While there isn't a top plate, there is a bottom plate. The top plate of the main wall connects to the bottom plate of the short wall with 2x4s laid flat.



As for your engineered wood, if its the classic I beam, then you can still do your 2x4 short wall just like I did, except that you will be limited to nailing at the top and bottom of the floor joist. But that's still good because that gives a long moment arm to resist the wall getting pushed sideways.



Now if your floor joist ran parallel to the wall, here's how I would frame it up.
HooKooDooKu:
Your pictures are so similar to mine that for a long time I thought that you hadn't changed a thing. But, on examining more closely, I realized that you had indeed changed them. Now it makes a lot more sense. Thank you for your input! Greatly appreciated!
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:57 PM   #25
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Walls that Can't Go To the Ceiling


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HooKooDooKu:
Your pictures are so similar to mine that for a long time I thought that you hadn't changed a thing. But, on examining more closely, I realized that you had indeed changed them. Now it makes a lot more sense. Thank you for your input! Greatly appreciated!
Like I said, your first picture was oh so close to what I described.

The only difference was that by attaching to the full height of the floor joist, the stud offers much more resistance to twisting from the push it's going to get from the main wall.

Now if the distance between the two walls was only about 6" and/or the short wall was only about 6" tall, then I would have just done it the way you showed. But my short wall is almost 2 feet away from the main wall, and is a little taller that 1 foot (from bottom of floor joist to bottom of short wall) that I wanted more resistance to the short wall.

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