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-   -   Wall question (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/wall-question-184313/)

detroittigerfan 07-26-2013 09:38 PM

Wall question
 
What is the best way to fasten your bottom wall plate to subfloor since the wall studs are directly above the floor joists?

joecaption 07-26-2013 09:48 PM

8 penny ring shanked nails. 2, between each stud offset from each other.

gregzoll 07-26-2013 09:51 PM

12 Penny or 16 Penny nails, depending on how far through the Sub floor you want to go, and if it is a Structural wall or not. Always check with your local AHJ first to see which ones they recommend. See this thread http://www.diychatroom.com/f15/best-...il-size-16401/

http://www.helpcharts.com/images/NailSizeChart.jpg

detroittigerfan 07-26-2013 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 1221531)
8 penny ring shanked nails. 2, between each stud offset from each other.

if the stud is directly above the joist I assume I should toe nail?

gregzoll 07-26-2013 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 1221531)
8 penny ring shanked nails. 2, between each stud offset from each other.

See my link from the last time this was discussed Joe. Kingfisher's info is what I used in my post, just pulled the chart from another old post we have in our archived posts here.

joecaption 07-26-2013 10:00 PM

An 8D will go though the bottom plate and through the subflooring, no need for it to be any longer.

gregzoll 07-26-2013 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 1221541)
An 8D will go though the bottom plate and through the subflooring, no need for it to be any longer.

You and I know that, but not every area will allow you to use a 8 penny. Some require longer, due to Wind load, or Earthquake zone. Then add in the steel bracing for walls.

Illinois is still in the discussion after the last major Earthquake we had April 2008, if they should change the rules for structure strengthening, so they will stand during, which was a 5.4, but not much else since 2010 has been openly discussed with the public what the state is going to require for building rules mandates.

detroittigerfan 07-26-2013 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 1221535)
See my link from the last time this was discussed Joe. Kingfisher's info is what I used in my post, just pulled the chart from another old post we have in our archived posts here.

the last time we discussed this? This is my first day on this site.

gregzoll 07-26-2013 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detroittigerfan (Post 1221561)
the last time we discussed this? This is my first day on this site.

I was talking to Joe.

detroittigerfan 07-26-2013 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 1221564)
I was talking to Joe.

So, since the studs are directly above the joists do I just toe nail?

gregzoll 07-26-2013 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detroittigerfan (Post 1221566)
So, since the studs are directly above the joists do I just toe nail?

Some people like to Toe nail, others like to face nail, if they are lifting the wall into place, or have cut it perfect, that they can fit the wall into place, with a 1x2 ledger holding the studs in place, while placing, then toenail where they meet the bottom or top stud, depending on how you built it.

If you get it right for the Bottom & top plate, you can then go along, cut the studs at the proper heights, due to floors over time will slope due to foundation settling, and trying to build a wall with just the bottom or top plate, you have to think it out really well, so you have all your studs cut at the proper heights to account for the difference along the length.

Personally, to cut out the long winded above, nail your top plate where you want, take a plumb bob (bolt tied to a string will work), to find out where you need to place the bottom plate. Once you find the exact spot that it lines up, put in your studs by toe nailing those with 8d nails, and you should be fine.

detroittigerfan 07-26-2013 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 1221570)
Some people like to Toe nail, others like to face nail, if they are lifting the wall into place, or have cut it perfect, that they can fit the wall into place, with a 1x2 ledger holding the studs in place, while placing, then toenail where they meet the bottom or top stud, depending on how you built it.

If you get it right for the Bottom & top plate, you can then go along, cut the studs at the proper heights, due to floors over time will slope due to foundation settling, and trying to build a wall with just the bottom or top plate, you have to think it out really well, so you have all your studs cut at the proper heights to account for the difference along the length.

Personally, to cut out the long winded above, nail your top plate where you want, take a plumb bob (bolt tied to a string will work), to find out where you need to place the bottom plate. Once you find the exact spot that it lines up, put in your studs by toe nailing those with 8d nails, and you should be fine.

Thats not what I am asking. When you lift the wall into place on the first floor there going to be directly above the floor joists from the basement or crawl space. My question is since the joists are directly below the studs how can you face nail?

gregzoll 07-26-2013 11:24 PM

You face nail the bottom plate or top plate into the joists for both the ceiling and floor, as long as they are where those plates go.

If your home is built like mine, it would look like a grid, if you were to remove the roof, ceiling gypsum, flooring and subfloor. If yours is built, with trusses that they go the same direction as your joists, but your wall you are building, is going to run along side those framing members, you then have to run sleepers between the engineered trusses or joists, to allow you to nail the top plate to. Otherwise, it is just going to have nothing to attach.

There are a lot of resources out there for framing, that you can look at, but personally I like the one my father gave me, that my mom's father gave him. It is when they actually showed how to do this stuff, and you have to go to a library to find anything close to it, to tell you what I am doing, or have something visually.

Like the thread on the Venting issue, post same drawing of the floor plans, but for this thread, draw in where the joists are, and how the wall is going to lay in the floor plan. Google Sketch up is really good for this, Gimp or Paint, since you can use different colors for a particular item.

BTW, how old is this place? There may be blueprints still on file at your city hall, either physical or on microfilm/microfiche if they were one to collect these items.

When I went up to pull electric for my Kitchen, and an antenna line, when they framed the non-load bearing walls, that run alongside the ceiling joists, they used 1/2"-5/8" Plywood on top of the Top plate, that they used as not only a way to secure the Gyprock (Drywall with holes in it, that they applied plaster to. Boards were 2'x18"), then used that to allow them to have something to secure to the joists a cross member laying flat, at from what I can figure on my place, in three places on each wall, due to the longest any one of them is, is 16 feet.

This is about all I can give you. Best is get the floor plans drawn up with where that wall will be, with the ceiling and floor joists in the drawings, so all of us can get a better idea of what you are dealing with.

detroittigerfan 07-27-2013 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 1221584)
You face nail the bottom plate or top plate into the joists for both the ceiling and floor, as long as they are where those plates go.

If your home is built like mine, it would look like a grid, if you were to remove the roof, ceiling gypsum, flooring and subfloor. If yours is built, with trusses that they go the same direction as your joists, but your wall you are building, is going to run along side those framing members, you then have to run sleepers between the engineered trusses or joists, to allow you to nail the top plate to. Otherwise, it is just going to have nothing to attach.

There are a lot of resources out there for framing, that you can look at, but personally I like the one my father gave me, that my mom's father gave him. It is when they actually showed how to do this stuff, and you have to go to a library to find anything close to it, to tell you what I am doing, or have something visually.

Like the thread on the Venting issue, post same drawing of the floor plans, but for this thread, draw in where the joists are, and how the wall is going to lay in the floor plan. Google Sketch up is really good for this, Gimp or Paint, since you can use different colors for a particular item.

BTW, how old is this place? There may be blueprints still on file at your city hall, either physical or on microfilm/microfiche if they were one to collect these items.

When I went up to pull electric for my Kitchen, and an antenna line, when they framed the non-load bearing walls, that run alongside the ceiling joists, they used 1/2"-5/8" Plywood on top of the Top plate, that they used as not only a way to secure the Gyprock (Drywall with holes in it, that they applied plaster to. Boards were 2'x18"), then used that to allow them to have something to secure to the joists a cross member laying flat, at from what I can figure on my place, in three places on each wall, due to the longest any one of them is, is 16 feet.

This is about all I can give you. Best is get the floor plans drawn up with where that wall will be, with the ceiling and floor joists in the drawings, so all of us can get a better idea of what you are dealing with.

Do the wall studs always have to be directly above the floor joists?

Fix'n it 07-27-2013 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detroittigerfan (Post 1221695)
Do the wall studs always have to be directly above the floor joists?

load bearing = they should be. unless its an exterior wall. then the bottom plate should be on the rim joist = its fully supported throughout.


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