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Old 05-03-2013, 09:03 AM   #31
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Vinyl siding question


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Originally Posted by markharmon View Post
So the tab was bent upwards so it is flush with the lookouts for nailing purposes?
No. If you're using lookouts, you will not need to cut a tab. You will be nailing the channel directly overhead, onto the bottom edges of each lookout.

The reason to cut and bend a tab is so that you would have a small vertical surface (the tab) through which to nail to the wall. A tab is never cut with the standard outlook way of installation. Two different things.

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Old 05-03-2013, 09:20 AM   #32
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Yes... That is the way you have been installing all the siding, right from the first piece at the bottom. Right?

What if you were going to wait two weeks to install the soffit? Wouldn't you want that whole top section of siding well secured? Well then, secure it.

Frankly, if you install soffit the way I have shown, (with the lookouts) not one inch of your channel is going to be fastened to the siding surface anyway... anywhere.
I have not started yet but from what I have seen the top of the siding fits into a j channel or undersill trim. Im just having a hard time envisioning the channel for the soffit coming into contact with the siding without a channel.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:23 AM   #33
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No. If you're using lookouts, you will not need to cut a tab. You will be nailing the channel directly overhead, onto the bottom edges of each lookout.

The reason to cut and bend a tab is so that you would have a small vertical surface (the tab) through which to nail to the wall. A tab is never cut with the standard outlook way of installation. Two different things.
if your nailing to the lookouts why do you need to bend a tab to nail to the wall?
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:27 AM   #34
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Vinyl siding question


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if your nailing to the lookouts why do you need to bend a tab to nail to the wall?
You don't. Did you catch that I offered that "tab" method as a cheaper alternative? They are two distinctly different ways of installing.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:28 AM   #35
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You just need to make sure that the house wrap runs continuously up the wall and beyond the soffit J so that any water that may get in there has a way to escape down the face of the house wrap and not the sheathing.

You'd be surprised on how much rot I've repaired because the house wrap was cut off at the soffit and did not run up behind it.
What if you live in a county that goes by the IBC and does not realize that it is a life safety code and not a moisture intrusion code? I have tried to explain this to the idiots that run the building department in my county to no avail, so houses keep going up with no building wrap or felt, and no wrap at the windows. I have even pointed them to the vinyl siding association that clearly states that secondary protection is needed to keep water out. They point me back to the code. Bone Heads.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:32 AM   #36
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You don't. Did you catch that I offered that "tab" method as a cheaper alternative? They are two distinctly different ways of installing.
Ok, so your saying no real part of the soffit channel is over the last course of vinyl siding? I guess my whole reason for asking is to prevent water getting where the soffit and siding transition occurs.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:37 AM   #37
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I have not started yet but from what I have seen the top of the siding fits into a j channel or undersill trim. Im just having a hard time envisioning the channel for the soffit coming into contact with the siding without a channel.
If the soffit happened to hit almost right at the bottom (the THICK part) of your piece of siding... how you gonna make a piece of channel on the siding work without it looking like a five-year old made a mistake?

Since you haven't started yet, go offer some installers thirty bucks to let you hang around and watch them for a day. Some will probably use the siding channel (many don't know any other way) so it will give you a chance to see if that kind of look will satisfy you.

I've always built custom homes, and my customers will not accept that kind of work, so I had to learn how to do it smoothly and cleanly. But double "J" molding is not wrong. It's kind of like the way your eyes notice the difference between a Lexus and a Toyota... Same company, different customers and goals.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:44 AM   #38
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What if you live in a county that goes by the IBC and does not realize that it is a life safety code and not a moisture intrusion code? I have tried to explain this to the idiots that run the building department in my county to no avail, so houses keep going up with no building wrap or felt, and no wrap at the windows. I have even pointed them to the vinyl siding association that clearly states that secondary protection is needed to keep water out. They point me back to the code. Bone Heads.
Haha...I couldn't imagine putting up a house with no wrap.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:48 AM   #39
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If the soffit happened to hit almost right at the bottom (the THICK part) of your piece of siding... how you gonna make a piece of channel on the siding work without it looking like a five-year old made a mistake?

Since you haven't started yet, go offer some installers thirty bucks to let you hang around and watch them for a day. Some will probably use the siding channel (many don't know any other way) so it will give you a chance to see if that kind of look will satisfy you.

I've always built custom homes, and my customers will not accept that kind of work, so I had to learn how to do it smoothly and cleanly. But double "J" molding is not wrong. It's kind of like the way your eyes notice the difference between a Lexus and a Toyota... Same company, different customers and goals.
So, basically your point is when the siding meets the top wall it is just nailed right to the wall with no j channel above it? After that your soffit channels are installed to the lookouts?
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:54 AM   #40
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Ok, so your saying no real part of the soffit channel is over the last course of vinyl siding? I guess my whole reason for asking is to prevent water getting where the soffit and siding transition occurs.
Maybe you need to post a picture of what you think this "J" channel stuff is... You may be talking about the two-direction channel... (really aggravaiting stuff to work with) which still leaves you with the look of a doubled thickness of channel strip.

It sometimes sounds like you are getting "F" channel confused with "J". I almost never use "F" channel.
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Last edited by Willie T; 05-03-2013 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:12 AM   #41
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They DO make a channel like this, that does double duty. You might be thinking of this stuff. But this is very difficult to work with if you aren't used to it.

And you still end up with the bulky doubled up look.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:18 AM   #42
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The "extra touch" is worth learning how to deliver.

Here is a friend of mine who is so much better at it than I am.......

http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?48950-coping-with-grinder
It would be worth your while to look up some of his work. He calls himself "BassWood"... Real name is Campbell. He maks construction something to drool over.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:34 AM   #43
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Vinyl siding question


Mark,
here's a link for a vinyl siding installation manual put out by the Vinyl Institue. Has everything you need to know in it.
http://chicagohomeprimer.com/editabl...n%20Manual.pdf

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Old 05-03-2013, 12:37 PM   #44
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Vinyl siding question


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Maybe you need to post a picture of what you think this "J" channel stuff is... You may be talking about the two-direction channel... (really aggravaiting stuff to work with) which still leaves you with the look of a doubled thickness of channel strip.

It sometimes sounds like you are getting "F" channel confused with "J". I almost never use "F" channel.
Ok but you should do the siding first though and then your soffit with channel nailed to lookouts? At your top course of siding you add your punch out holes for nailing then nail to the wall?
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:25 PM   #45
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Ok but you should do the siding first though and then your soffit with channel nailed to lookouts? At your top course of siding you add your punch out holes for nailing then nail to the wall?
That's pretty much it. You mainly want to try to avoid any joints (like at wall and soffit) where water can be blown in. That's why both the wrapping and the siding should extend up the wall past where the soffit comes across and meets the wall.

It's not all that big a deal if water gets behind the siding, since the wrapping (if lapped properly, and higher than the soffit) will protect the wood..... but why let it get back there at all? Running the siding higher than the soffit will eliminate that joint, along with the possibility of any water coming in there.

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