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-   -   Vinyl siding question (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/vinyl-siding-question-178555/)

markharmon 05-01-2013 07:53 PM

Vinyl siding question
 
Hi,

I keep getting different answers on this topic. Do you install soffits and j channel before or after siding?

firehawkmph 05-01-2013 08:19 PM

Mark,
siding usually runs right up to the underside of the soffit. Siding ends in a piece of finish trim, which is nailed up like J channel. When I am siding a house or garage, I usually run the siding up to the point where the next row will be the last. Then I install the soffit. Once the soffit is up, then I finish the last row of siding. You can put up the soffit first, that won't hurt anything. But when doing a building that has to have some kind of scaffolding set up, you wouldn't want to set up the scaffold just to do the soffits, then tear the scaffold down to start on the siding, then put it back up to finish the siding. Basically you are starting from the bottom and working your way to the top. If you are asking about your shed, you should be able to reach everything off a small stepladder, so it won't matter.
Mike Hawkins:)

markharmon 05-01-2013 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firehawkmph (Post 1170945)
Mark,
siding usually runs right up to the underside of the soffit. Siding ends in a piece of finish trim, which is nailed up like J channel. When I am siding a house or garage, I usually run the siding up to the point where the next row will be the last. Then I install the soffit. Once the soffit is up, then I finish the last row of siding. You can put up the soffit first, that won't hurt anything. But when doing a building that has to have some kind of scaffolding set up, you wouldn't want to set up the scaffold just to do the soffits, then tear the scaffold down to start on the siding, then put it back up to finish the siding. Basically you are starting from the bottom and working your way to the top. If you are asking about your shed, you should be able to reach everything off a small stepladder, so it won't matter.
Mike Hawkins:)

The reason I ask is because if you put up your soffit and J channel before siding that area then you add a piece of j channel up against the soffit j channel would there a potential for water to get in between the 2 j channels?

woodworkbykirk 05-01-2013 09:21 PM

it depends on how the final course of siding lands.. if its a larger panel you can run it up past and then install the fchannel for the soffit.. if you end up with a small piece of siding then just tuck it up into j channel that butts to the soffit


vinyl siding gets water behind it more than any other type so i wouldnt worry about it much if you have properly sealed the water.. the biggest misconception with people is that they think the siding is what keeps the water out.. wrong.. make the house water tight first in the prep stage and then the siding is just lipstick on a pig

kwikfishron 05-02-2013 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markharmon (Post 1170981)
The reason I ask is because if you put up your soffit and J channel before siding that area then you add a piece of j channel up against the soffit j channel would there a potential for water to get in between the 2 j channels?

You just need to make sure that the house wrap runs continuously up the wall and beyond the soffit J so that any water that may get in there has a way to escape down the face of the house wrap and not the sheathing.

You'd be surprised on how much rot I've repaired because the house wrap was cut off at the soffit and did not run up behind it.

Willie T 05-02-2013 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwikfishron (Post 1171106)
You just need to make sure that the house wrap runs continuously up the wall and beyond the soffit J so that any water that may get in there has a way to escape down the face of the house wrap and not the sheathing.

You'd be surprised on how much rot I've repaired because the house wrap was cut off at the soffit and did not run up behind it.

Ron is right. And, truthfully, all of the wall... sheathing, insulation, wraping, brick... whatever...... should be built first, and run up at least 6" past where the soffet will meet the wall. (There IS a bit of a difference if you are stuccoing...)

Nothing looks tackier (and invites infiltration) more than than two "J" chanels meeting up there at right angles. Looks like an after-thought.

This is usually only done by after-market people installing siding "cover-up" over something else.

markharmon 05-02-2013 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T (Post 1171211)
Ron is right. And, truthfully, all of the wall... sheathing, insulation, wraping, brick... whatever...... should be built first, and run up at least 6" past where the soffet will meet the wall. (There IS a bit of a difference if you are stuccoing...)

Nothing looks tackier (and invites infiltration) more than than two "J" chanels meeting up there at right angles. Looks like an after-thought.

This is usually only done by after-market people installing siding "cover-up" over something else.

So lets say I'm vinyl siding a house. Your saying I should install it up the where the soffit meets the wall then tack a j channel over top of the vinyl siding then install the soffit panels?

Willie T 05-02-2013 02:06 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by markharmon (Post 1171268)
So lets say I'm vinyl siding a house. Your saying I should install it up the where the soffit meets the wall then tack a j channel over top of the vinyl siding then install the soffit panels?

This is what I'm talking about.....

No matter WHERE the soffit hits the vinyl, in the thin top part, or in the fatter lower section, the single "J" channel fastened to the soffit framing outlookers ( the one that supports the soffit) is the ONLY edge you will ever see... NOT a bulky, double, 90 degree pair of butting "J" chanels.

And this will even work, to large extent, if the vinyl siding is running uphill, out of level a little bit.

One, clean, square "J" channel....... nothing else. It really looks sharp...... AND deliberately planned.

markharmon 05-02-2013 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T (Post 1171310)
This is what I'm talking about.....

No matter WHERE the soffit hits the vinyl, in the thin top part, or in the fatter lower section, the single "J" channel fastened to the soffit framing outlookers ( the one that supports the soffit) is the ONLY edge you will ever see... NOT a bulky, double, 90 degree pair of butting "J" chanels.

And this will even work, to large extent, if the vinyl siding is running uphill, out of level a little bit.

One, clean, square "J" channel....... nothing else. It really looks sharp...... AND deliberately planned.

How are you getting that J channel behind the rafter though?

markharmon 05-02-2013 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T (Post 1171310)
This is what I'm talking about.....

No matter WHERE the soffit hits the vinyl, in the thin top part, or in the fatter lower section, the single "J" channel fastened to the soffit framing outlookers ( the one that supports the soffit) is the ONLY edge you will ever see... NOT a bulky, double, 90 degree pair of butting "J" chanels.

And this will even work, to large extent, if the vinyl siding is running uphill, out of level a little bit.

One, clean, square "J" channel....... nothing else. It really looks sharp...... AND deliberately planned.

When you put in your soffit lookouts you add your ledger board nailed to the building level with the very bottom of the fascia board or actually a little higher to account for the channel depth?

Willie T 05-02-2013 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markharmon (Post 1171325)
When you put in your soffit lookouts you add your ledger board nailed to the building level with the very bottom of the fascia board or actually a little higher to account for the channel depth?

Yes, a little higher. You do not want to distort the shape of the siding. That's why you never fasten a "J" channel (or an "F" channel) to the siding, if you can help it... It crushes and bends the shape of the siding if you do not use screws, and only draw it down a tiny bit. And it will also prohibit the inevitable necessary movement of the vinyl due to expansion and contraction. Not cool at all... It will cause the vinyl to buckle, in a new york minute!

Of course, you would not waste a piece of siding just to run it way up above where the soffit will hit. A few inches is fine.

Willie T 05-02-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markharmon (Post 1171323)
How are you getting that J channel behind the rafter though?

????? The "J" channel doesn't touch a rafter anywhere.

Willie T 05-02-2013 02:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by markharmon (Post 1171325)
When you put in your soffit lookouts you add your ledger board nailed to the building level with the very bottom of the fascia board or actually a little higher to account for the channel depth?

Notice that the outlooker has the interior bottom corner cut off at the siding angle? That's why the ledger (if you even use one..... Some guys don't.) can easily be an inch or two higher than the soffit.

This drawing is EXAGERATED , to give you a clearer idea.

markharmon 05-02-2013 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T (Post 1171330)
????? The "J" channel doesn't touch a rafter anywhere.

the blue siding in the picture what is the top of the siding attached to?

markharmon 05-02-2013 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T (Post 1171310)
This is what I'm talking about.....

No matter WHERE the soffit hits the vinyl, in the thin top part, or in the fatter lower section, the single "J" channel fastened to the soffit framing outlookers ( the one that supports the soffit) is the ONLY edge you will ever see... NOT a bulky, double, 90 degree pair of butting "J" chanels.

And this will even work, to large extent, if the vinyl siding is running uphill, out of level a little bit.

One, clean, square "J" channel....... nothing else. It really looks sharp...... AND deliberately planned.

That piece of wood in the picture is a lookout?


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