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Old 01-09-2013, 11:28 AM   #1
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Vaulted Ceilings - Connection


All, I apologize for blowing up this site so often in the past week. I truly appreciate the advice on this site and the expertise and experience that you have and are willing to provide.

My question is for my pitched rafter connection to my "ledger" type board. Temporarily, I have some toenails in them to hold them in place.

I purchased L brackets (specifically the L90 simpson brackets I believe) to connect these as this was the closest item at the local hardware store that they had that seemed suitable for the application. I put a few up, and they appear to be strong and would certainly appear to work, however I wanted to know if this application is appropriate (and would pass code). I saw in another post on here that there is a hanger that could be changed to fit the pitch of my rafters.

Is there a large amount of benefit in taking off my L brackets and re-doing these with the joist hangers?

Thanks. Below is a picture of the un-bracketed rafter.
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Vaulted Ceilings - Connection-old-new-ledger.jpg   Vaulted Ceilings - Connection-original-sistered-side.jpg  

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Old 01-09-2013, 12:12 PM   #2
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Vaulted Ceilings - Connection


Have you checked to see if brackets are require by code? They aren't here. If they are where you live, your local building department will tell you what to use. If they're not, you can use whatever you want, or nothing at all.

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Old 01-09-2013, 12:24 PM   #3
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Vaulted Ceilings - Connection


Thanks.

I looked but I was not quite sure what this connection would qualify as which is why I was having a bit of trouble. I think I will be ok (I know it is strong, but sometimes that isn't quite good enough!) but I wanted to check here.

Also, I am an idiot and could not hammer in my 10D nails without knocking the rafters out of alignment, so I decided to screw the brackets in. doesn't seem like that was a brilliant move either in doing a bit more research.

Ahh...the learning curve. Can be frustrating.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:25 PM   #4
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Indeed. Though they are simple devices, Simpson connectors are actually pretty highly engineered and generally each is for a specific application. Also, for maximum effectiveness (and code compliance, if applicable) you must use the correct Simpson nails.

What size are your rafters? A 10d nail seems awfully small, though I'm not sure what code is. The rafters in my log house are 2x10, and I used 16d sinkers. With a little practice, toenailing them in isn't hard. Just use a framing hammer instead of a lighter general purpose one.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:37 PM   #5
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Well, the brackets called for the 10d's. My toenails are 16's. I may just keep the screws in for the brackets and toenail from the other side. In looking deeper I did not see that any brackets were required, however I could easily be missing something. Therefore, even though this may be an incorrect thought, I feel as though the added bracket would be ok even with the screws. Perhaps I am just trying to justify in my head not removing 100 screws and replacing with nails.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjbingha View Post
Well, the brackets called for the 10d's. My toenails are 16's. I may just keep the screws in for the brackets and toenail from the other side. In looking deeper I did not see that any brackets were required, however I could easily be missing something. Therefore, even though this may be an incorrect thought, I feel as though the added bracket would be ok even with the screws. Perhaps I am just trying to justify in my head not removing 100 screws and replacing with nails.
Do you have plans and permits and getting inspections?
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:27 PM   #7
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Yes, and well, no. I did not have architectural plans (just homeowner plans) but I did have a SE in. He did not comment on the connection. He did deem the rafters that I am sistering adequate (I am only sistering half of them to be consistent with the other half that actually required the sister's due to some poor judgment of the previous contractors who put on the addition. They were not extremely detailed plans and did not include any connections except for the main beam in the house which we will be jacking and then sistering with two LVL's.

Being from NJ, what is your take on what will and will not be required? Would love to hear from someone in the area that has experience with this.

Thanks!
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:23 PM   #8
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It looks like NJ is using the 2009 International Residential Code. That would be state wide.
Plus any amendments for your local Building Department.
So probably your BD would require hangers on those roof rafters.

Andy.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:21 PM   #9
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I second what Andy said. As the rafters are supported by the rim joists, both top/bottom, hangers are required per IRC; "R802.6 Bearing. The ends of each rafter or ceiling joist shall have not less than 1-1/2 inches (38 mm) of bearing on wood or metal and not less than 3 inches (76 mm) on masonry or concrete. " Underline is mine, from; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...?bu2=undefined

Uplift resistance is also required; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...?bu2=undefined

Match your local wind speed location with that chart as this one is difficult to read; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...?bu2=undefined

"FIGURE R301.2(4)—continued BASIC WIND SPEEDS FOR 50-YEAR MEAN RECURRENCE INTERVAL

(continued)
" at- scroll down below 1/2; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...?bu2=undefined

The Simpson hangers require certain fasteners (or a reduction taken) or their special structural screws; http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/nails.asp

Standard hangers- read footnotes below chart also; http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...ace_ss-df1.asp

Or a shear hanger with longer nails in the ledger at a 45*, to hold your roof system together (usually designed by SE); http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...ace_ss-df1.asp

The ledger should also be lagged to the studs behind it.

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Old 01-10-2013, 07:05 PM   #10
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On mine, I used the LSU hardware.

What you have to ask yourself....do you want min code or do you want it to last?

I plan to be in my house for a long time....

You can see mine in this pic

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Old 01-10-2013, 07:59 PM   #11
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How does that roof vent at the ridge? Or are you going "unvented"?

Gary
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
How does that roof vent at the ridge? Or are you going "unvented"?

Gary
Yep...unvented. It's California....we are having a 'cold snap' tonight...it might get into the mid 30's....
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:11 AM   #13
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Isn't one of the purposes of venting to allow hot air to escape? In Southern CA I'd think you'd want to vent and lower your air conditioning bill.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:23 AM   #14
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Isn't one of the purposes of venting to allow hot air to escape? In Southern CA I'd think you'd want to vent and lower your air conditioning bill.
Air Conditioning?

I'm 4 miles from the beach....we 'might' turn on the ceiling fans for a few weeks during the summer....we don't have AC....

If this past summer is any clue as to how the new layout is going to work in regards to temp....we are going to be fine. Plenty of air flow with the windows open....

One of the guys here sent me a link to I believe is GreenBuildingScience (or something like that). Good topic on vaulted ceilings. Basically, there does not seem to be any advantage to venting...and per our code, I don't need to.

What I plan to do is install 1-2" of rigid foam board first up against the roof sheathing...then I'll put in the 'pink stuff'.

To the OP...sorry for hijacking your thread....

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