Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall - Building & Construction - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-20-2011, 02:47 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 63
Rewards Points: 75
Question

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


We had a contractor install a new Anderson sliding door 4 years ago and I remember him telling me he had to trim the studs to allow the door to fit in the rough opening. Currently we are remodeling our downstairs and removed the drywall and were surprised to see only single 1” wide jack studs supporting the 4x12 header above the door. There is a large second floor master bath with a mudded tile floor and a large two-person tub directly above that cantilevers out the back. I ran a string and the center of the two top plates deflects almost a 1/2” over a 6’ span in the middle. The load on this header must be substantial and even single unripped 2x4 jack studs would be insufficient for the load



I don’t see anything I can do to correct this situation except to fur out a properly sized load-bearing wall in front of the existing exterior wall. I would like to support the 2x12 floor joists above with a 4x12 Parallam. I would carry the load down to the foundation wall using 4x6 posts and building up the sill plate under the subfloor. See drawing below.



Does anyone see a problem with this approach?

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

Advertisement

Fire4Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 06:20 AM   #2
Stay-at-home GC
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Posts: 638
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


Any reason not to just crib up the floor and reframe the exterior wall with the appropriate jack studs? Looks like your added work will be moving the exterior receptacle box on the left and what I assume is a vent run from the basement on the right. But you'll make up for it in cost and not having to mess with jam extensions when you are ready to trim the door. Of course I might be missing something obvious here.


Other than that my only comment might be the framing member laying sideways along the mud-sill. As it dries it will shrink. Maybe enough to allow your fur wall to sag.

Advertisement

__________________
Can correctly identify Shinola 3 out of 5 times*
*Under ideal conditions

Some days, my Life needs a Rewind/Erase Button.
CplDevilDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 10:57 AM   #3
Residential Designer
 
AndyGump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Orange County CA.
Posts: 1,317
Rewards Points: 550
Send a message via Skype™ to AndyGump
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


Don't do any over-kill on your project unless needed. Does the header actually sag?
put your line on the top of the header and see, if it doesn't sag then your contractor may have installed that rather over-sized header incorrectly.
That he may not have braced the floor when installing the header and it fell a bit.

Andy.
AndyGump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 01:25 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,993
Rewards Points: 2,052
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


It appears the header is straight on top, lining a straight edge in front of my monitor (not totally accurate). The plate is lower from the string line - 1/4"? Cut off the extra length of hanging string as it will help sag the main line. Try adding slightly longer cripple studs next to the existing over the headers after checking header for straight as Andy said. You will lose some elevation as mentioned due to lumber shrinkage, but not recent if done 4 years ago; http://www.paintsource.net/pages/sol...ood_shrink.htm

See if adding the longer cripples bows the header. Add some metal gusset plates at the jacks or tear into it and add these: http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/HH.asp

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 02:39 PM   #5
Member
 
Tizzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Richmond Va.
Posts: 324
Rewards Points: 274
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


You said the contractor installed a 'new' sliding door, was there something there before? Did he put that header in or just those 1" jacks?
Why 1" btw?
Tizzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 03:55 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 63
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by CplDevilDog View Post
Any reason not to just crib up the floor and reframe the exterior wall with the appropriate jack studs? Looks like your added work will be moving the exterior receptacle box on the left and what I assume is a vent run from the basement on the right. But you'll make up for it in cost and not having to mess with jam extensions when you are ready to trim the door. Of course I might be missing something obvious here.


Other than that my only comment might be the framing member laying sideways along the mud-sill. As it dries it will shrink. Maybe enough to allow your fur wall to sag.
CplDevilDog,

Thank you for your comments.

Based on the load above and code there should be two 2x4 jack studs under the 4x12 header. The header was obviously cut too short when the building was constructed in 1984. I remember the contractor who installed the new sliding door in 2006 had a very difficult time removing the original slider because there was zero clearance in the rough opening. He had to rip the single jack studs to 1” in thickness just to obtain the minimum rough opening size for a standard 6 foot wide sliding door.

To reframe the opening properly the header must be replaced with one wide enough for two jack studs and allowance for the minimum rough opening size of the sliding door. To do this I would have to remove the stucco from the exterior of the wall, destroy the Anderson doorframe and most likely the floor and wall tile in the master bath above.

Regarding the 2x6 PT I would rip for the mudsill and the 6x6 I would place on top of it. I have both stored inside for over a year and no more shrinking will occur.

Last edited by Fire4Effect; 04-21-2011 at 04:00 AM.
Fire4Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 03:56 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 63
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyGump View Post
Don't do any over-kill on your project unless needed. Does the header actually sag?
put your line on the top of the header and see, if it doesn't sag then your contractor may have installed that rather over-sized header incorrectly.
That he may not have braced the floor when installing the header and it fell a bit.

Andy.

Andy,

Thank you for your comments.

The original builder installed the header in 1984 and a 4x12 header is called out in the original drawing. There is no detail on the drawing indicating the number of jack studs, but code dictates two must be used based on the load above.

Last edited by Fire4Effect; 04-21-2011 at 04:00 AM.
Fire4Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 03:59 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 63
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
It appears the header is straight on top, lining a straight edge in front of my monitor (not totally accurate). The plate is lower from the string line - 1/4"? Cut off the extra length of hanging string as it will help sag the main line. Try adding slightly longer cripple studs next to the existing over the headers after checking header for straight as Andy said. You will lose some elevation as mentioned due to lumber shrinkage, but not recent if done 4 years ago; http://www.paintsource.net/pages/sol...ood_shrink.htm

See if adding the longer cripples bows the header. Add some metal gusset plates at the jacks or tear into it and add these: http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/HH.asp

Gary

Gary,

Thank you for your comments.

The plate deflection was measured slightly over 3/8” before the other string you noticed was strung. I only mentioned the deflection of the plates to emphasize the load above. This wall supports a second floor and roof load with a heavy stucco exterior. The room above is a master bath with a thick-mudded tile floor and floor to ceiling mudded tiled shower. There is also a large two-person Jacuzzi tube above the slider that cantilevers out the back over the door.

NOTE: We are in a seismic 4 area.

BTW, I only use structural select KD DF for all my 2x lumber. My lumber yard here stocks it for just pennies more than green lumber.
Fire4Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 04:02 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 63
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tizzer View Post
You said the contractor installed a 'new' sliding door, was there something there before? Did he put that header in or just those 1" jacks?
Why 1" btw?

Tizzer,

Thank you for your comments.

We upgraded from a 6 foot wide single pane aluminum sliding door to a 6 foot wide Anderson Gliding Door. The 4x12 header is original construction and the contractor that installed the new Anderson door ripped the jack studs to obtain the minimum rough opening.
Fire4Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 08:52 AM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 9
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


If you do not want to reframe the opening, one way to reinforce the header connection would be to add an addition full height stud, add lag bolts thru the full height studs into the end grain of the header, and add a steel side plate with nails into the full height studs and side of the header.

But I like your idea better.

Last edited by Talbot3; 04-21-2011 at 08:55 AM.
Talbot3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 02:55 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 63
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


I have been out of commission and not been able to get any work done or post for over a week after an eye injury and severe knee pain.

Any suggestions on the best way to tie the new 2x4 support wall to the inside corner intersection of the existing 2x4 and 2x6 stud walls?

Thanks

Fire4Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 12:55 AM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,993
Rewards Points: 2,052
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


Add a 2x6 stud to the back (inside 2x6 wall) of the 4x, flush on the inside, sticking past the 2x4 wall end stud for nailing there. Use drywall clips at inside corner.

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 10:38 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 63
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
Add a 2x6 stud to the back (inside 2x6 wall) of the 4x, flush on the inside, sticking past the 2x4 wall end stud for nailing there. Use drywall clips at inside corner.

Gary

Gary,

Thank you for your suggestion, but this is no way to nail the overhang from the 2x6 attached to the 4x6 post to the 2x4 stud wall.
Fire4Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 01:11 AM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,993
Rewards Points: 2,052
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


Possible confusing explanation. Picture a 2x6 stud nailed to the backside of the 4x6, on the 4x side, resting on the 2x6 bottom plate. It will stick out the back 2" behind the 2x4 end stud wall. Face nail it through the 2x4 left side (the right side is face nailed to the end 2x6 already holding the walls together.
Just as it sits, put a 2x6 stud in the 2x6 wall right behind the 4x6 and 2x4 next to it, tying them together. Nail the 2x6 to the post first before the plates.

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2011, 11:40 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 63
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Upgrading An Insufficient Load Bearing Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
Possible confusing explanation. Picture a 2x6 stud nailed to the backside of the 4x6, on the 4x side, resting on the 2x6 bottom plate. It will stick out the back 2" behind the 2x4 end stud wall. Face nail it through the 2x4 left side (the right side is face nailed to the end 2x6 already holding the walls together.
Just as it sits, put a 2x6 stud in the 2x6 wall right behind the 4x6 and 2x4 next to it, tying them together. Nail the 2x6 to the post first before the plates.

Gary

Gary,

Thank you again for suggesting a solution. I understand the first part of what you are suggesting, but there is no way to face nail the 2x4 to the 2x6 nailed to the 4x6 unless I remove the exterior stucco and sheathing.

The last part Just as it sits, put a 2x6 stud in the 2x6 wall right behind the 4x6 and 2x4 next to it, tying them together. Nail the 2x6 to the post first before the plates.” I just can’t picture.

Howard

Advertisement

Fire4Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do you think this wall is load bearing? rchickering Remodeling 17 11-21-2011 06:35 PM
Is this wall load bearing - pictures attached jen5219 Building & Construction 16 08-01-2010 01:17 PM
Load Bearing Wall Issue? iggy913 Building & Construction 1 07-28-2010 07:45 PM
Raising Doorway Height (load bearing?) treefrog Building & Construction 6 02-25-2008 10:11 PM
Load Bearing Wall rpatterson Building & Construction 2 10-29-2005 08:43 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts