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Old 08-28-2012, 03:26 PM   #16
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Unsafe Deck?


Interesting.. so it looks like the weight on the "outside" of the deck rests solely on the rim joist, which is nailed to the side of the post with about a dozen nails. It would seem to me that this would be similar in strength to some decks that are installed with the beams bolted to the sides of the posts, rather than a notched post that the beam rests on. One positive thing about the deck is I bet that railing is very solid, given they're 6x6 posts that go from the ground all the way to the top (assuming the railing posts aren't spanned too far)!

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Old 08-28-2012, 03:39 PM   #17
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Are there any joist hangers fixing the joists to the rim joist? It looks like the joists are just end-nailed through the rim, unless it's bits on my screen.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony.g View Post
Are there any joist hangers fixing the joists to the rim joist? It looks like the joists are just end-nailed through the rim, unless it's bits on my screen.
It looks like there are joist hangers and the joists are end nailed through the rim joist.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:01 PM   #19
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Yea, that's not a good deck... The outside beam needs to be a double (what size double will depend upon the span between posts and the joist span) and the post should be under the beam, not next to it. The way that deck is built though makes it tough to retrofit properly. I would advise adding a second member to the rim and then adding another 4x4 or 6x6 post under the beam lagged to the existing posts.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:19 PM   #20
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It would be pretty easy to temp up the joist, pull the first two rows of decking, cut back the joist and drop beams into inverted hangers. At least it wouldn’t look like an afterthought.

How is the ledger attached to the house? What are the post sitting on?
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:28 PM   #21
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Someone was happy with the nail gun! I like Roberts' idea to double up the "rim" joist and then post down to the concrete footing underneath the newly doubled member. if you examine the footing around the base of the posts you will be able to determine if there is adequate projection of the footing past the outer edges of the posts.


It would be beneficial also to add fill in blocking around the posts up under the decking to support the decking...
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:56 PM   #22
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After you double up the rim joist and have them bolted to the post. How about adding a beam on the backside of the posts? Let them into the posts by 1" and bolt them to the posts also. It should be plenty strong and safe without any major reconstruction or cost.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikfishron View Post
It would be pretty easy to temp up the joist, pull the first two rows of decking, cut back the joist and drop beams into inverted hangers. At least it wouldn’t look like an afterthought.

How is the ledger attached to the house? What are the post sitting on?
Easy for a pro, yes. Easy for a DIY homeowner? No, think that through a little bit. They need to build a temp beam, remove railings, remove decking, cut joists, notch 6x6 (in place) install new beam, reattach joists and hangers, install decking, install rails.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetfarm View Post
After you double up the rim joist and have them bolted to the post. How about adding a beam on the backside of the posts? Let them into the posts by 1" and bolt them to the posts also. It should be plenty strong and safe without any major reconstruction or cost.
only issue is the building code states that all beams and joists must bear upon a minimum of 1-1/2" of wood or metal.

at this point we do not know the dimensions of the deck or spacing between the columns so we cannot determine whether it will require 1 or 2 more plies added onto the rim joist.

as previously mentioned he can add a 2x member (same width as column) to the exterior face of the columns from the foundation (hopefully there is a concrete foundation) up to the beam to support the load and meet the code requirement.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:30 PM   #25
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http://www.awc.org/publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf American Wood Council's "Prescriptive Residential Wood Deck Construction Guide" based upon the 2009 International Residential Code.

Table 3 on page 5 will provide the size of the beam based upon the length of the joists, spacing between columns and species of wood used for the beam.

Hope this helps
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:39 PM   #26
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I am not sure where the original poster is from. I almost forgot about the beaurocracy and permits required to live in Massachusetts. Will he bound by code to bring the deck up to code? Or can the deck be reinforced and made safe without paying the penalty for the previous owners design?
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:00 AM   #27
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sweetfarm,

the best advice I can give someone is before starting a project stop by the building department and discuss the project with the building official. They are the ones that interpret the building code. You can find out answers to your questions by talking with them. Better to find out potential hurdles in the beginning than trying to jump over them with your tool belt on.

I would like to think the building official would allow him to upgrade the deck (probably with a required permit) since he would be making a non-conforming condition more conforming. Most people do not realize the importance of having permits and inspections. Imagine putting your home on the market these days. A perspective buyer discovers your deck was built without permits or inspections (simple check at the building department will reveal this). The deck may be perfectly constructed, but the buyer will now wonder if they will have to have work done on the deck in the near future because of the potential for substandard construction (why else wouldn't they get a permit?). Think this may affect their offer on your property?

Massachusetts does have it regulations, but then more and more states are moving in that direction. We have a uniform state building code (except for energy code regulations) which is not allowed to be modified by any local town or city.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:48 AM   #28
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I am not sure why so many people are adverse to the side loaded connection types here.

Of course notching the post or bearing directly to foundation is going to allow more loading, but there is nothing inherently wrong with side attachment at the connection points to the column. We see this type of connection in all types of construction with various materials.

I wouldn't have used a couple of dozen nails, and rather would have installed carriage bolts, but the idea that you can't support required loads with this type of connection isn't necessarily true.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:00 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu View Post
I am not sure why so many people are adverse to the side loaded connection types here.

Of course notching the post or bearing directly to foundation is going to allow more loading, but there is nothing inherently wrong with side attachment at the connection points to the column. We see this type of connection in all types of construction with various materials.

I wouldn't have used a couple of dozen nails, and rather would have installed carriage bolts, but the idea that you can't support required loads with this type of connection isn't necessarily true.
True, however code will require you to get an engineer to approve this connection now. In a bolted situation the wood will fail before the bolt, and it will fail because it will get dry and crack more and more, and then it could fail in a catastrophic way. However if the beam is resting on top of the post... Well it's kind of hard for it to fail.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:06 AM   #30
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I agree, side loaded connections can be designed, however the prescriptive nature of the International Residential Code does not allow this type of connection without it being designed by a professional engineer or in your case, an architect (see below). Myself I tend to provide guidance where applicable based upon the prescriptive requirements.

R502.6 Bearing. The ends of each joist, beam or girder shall have not less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) of bearing on wood or metal and not less than 3 inches (76 mm) on masonry or concrete except where supported on a 1-inch-by-4-inch (25.4 mm by 102 mm) ribbon strip and nailed to the adjacent stud or by the use of approved joist hangers.

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