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Old 02-10-2009, 10:54 AM   #1
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


So do you think the couple of random 2x4's are just leftover supports used during construction, that can be removed? They don't appear to be fashioned in a manner one would expect if they were to be permanent.





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Old 02-10-2009, 11:05 AM   #2
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


as you might imagine the thought of finishing this space has crossed my mind. It's over a 2 car garage, approx 20' by 20', and the peak of the ceiling is close to 20' (i'd have to measure it to be sure).

It would need it's own a/c unit /furnance (which would also be provide the current upstairs extra bed and bath with a little more cold air in the summer (currently it's hot up there in the middle of summer). Of course electrical would need to be run. And then there is the little issue of access to the space.....

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Old 02-10-2009, 01:35 PM   #3
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


Is there a support beam underneath those joists?
How big are the joists? 2x6, 2x8?
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:07 PM   #4
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Is there a support beam underneath those joists?
How big are the joists? 2x6, 2x8?
2x10 or 2x12

There is no support beam under the joists,they span from one wall to a laminated beam (i.e no visible supports in garage like posts or something) the only one in the house. The house's main beam is 3 2x10's nailed together.

Clearly I need to take some better pictures and get some solid measurements.

Mainly I'm just wondering about the random pieces of wood that appear to be put in during construction and then not removed.

I realize there are other factors to be considered if this space were to be finished, the would be floor joist are one of them, i figured they would need to be sistered.
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:01 PM   #5
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


2x10 depending upon the wood can span 17-18'
But that would probably be a somewhat bouncy floor

2x12 depending upon the wood can span 20-22'
Spanning 18' 6" I went with I beams for a stiffer floor for a walk up attic. My main concern was the ceiling in my great room not cracking. I also went to the next size up from what code called for
Maybe not a concern if the garage is below

It does not seem like the 2x4's are really holding anything up
Possibly there were used to brace things as they were assembled
Then just left there

Another issue - 5/8 sheetrock is required between the garage & living space, If they only used 1/2" you will need to add more to the garage ceiling

Adding a 2x LVL below to span the distance & support the new floor in the middle would probably be a good idea
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:34 PM   #6
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


What size is that enormous beam that's perpendicular to the floor joists? Are the floor joists attached to it?
The errant 2x4's are left over braces as stated before. They could be removed.
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:44 PM   #7
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


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Originally Posted by Ron6519 View Post
What size is that enormous beam that's perpendicular to the floor joists? Are the floor joists attached to it?
The errant 2x4's are left over braces as stated before. They could be removed.
Ron
That's pieces of OSB lying flat
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Old 02-10-2009, 06:35 PM   #8
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


Quote:
The errant 2x4's are left over braces as stated before. They could be removed.
hold on. are the hip rafters doubled? Is the ridge beam supported? Are there collar ties?
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:42 AM   #9
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


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That's pieces of OSB lying flat
Yes, we had a new roof put on, I had them replace rotten pieces of OSB, they had a bunch of OSB left over so I cut it into strips and put it there so I could more easily walk around down there. The one beam i mentioned is not visible in the picture.

There is one long 2x4 visible, runs ontop and perpendicular to the joists, appears to have been put there to act like blocking or x bracing.....
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:57 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by II Weeks View Post
hold on. are the hip rafters doubled? Is the ridge beam supported? Are there collar ties?
So goggle told me what the things are that you speak of.

So hip rafters are the two corner boards that run from wall to ceiling, I don't think they are doulbed, again I will have to check. Ridge beam I assume would be the horizontal beam at the very top running the length of that side of the house? It is supported by all of the side rafters, but there is no direct underneath support to it (like a post).

Collar ties, had to Google that one as well. I thought that was what somebody put it to enable a ceiling to be installed vs. having a A-frame type ceiling, but I'm guessing you are going to say they structural in nature. There are no collar ties.


Would it suprise you to know I did have this house inspected and basically there was nothing wrong with it?

Would it surprise you to know that after I gutted the kitchen I discovered that 60% of the first floor (above a full unfinished basement) joists had only 2 nails in them and had sagged almost 2". The ledger was only nailed every 2' or so, and they sagged down between the ledger nails, ledger was all wavy. The didn't notch the joist, so the joist sat 1.5" above the main beam. Just happened to be a supporting first floor wall that ran right over the beam and the unsupported subfloor. That wall sank too. All of this had been masked by previous owners via adjusting door frames etc.

My dad and I fixed all of that, jacked up all of the joists and re-hung with hangers, new ledger, nailed that crap out of the main beam etc. Built supporting wall (just for the hell of it) in basement just to one side of the main beam to prevent half the house from ever sagging again (the side with the kitchen and all my soon to do tile work. We sistered all the joist we could get to as well in prep for tile.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:05 AM   #11
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
2x10 depending upon the wood can span 17-18'
But that would probably be a somewhat bouncy floor

2x12 depending upon the wood can span 20-22'
Spanning 18' 6" I went with I beams for a stiffer floor for a walk up attic. My main concern was the ceiling in my great room not cracking. I also went to the next size up from what code called for
Maybe not a concern if the garage is below

It does not seem like the 2x4's are really holding anything up
Possibly there were used to brace things as they were assembled
Then just left there

Another issue - 5/8 sheetrock is required between the garage & living space, If they only used 1/2" you will need to add more to the garage ceiling

Adding a 2x LVL below to span the distance & support the new floor in the middle would probably be a good idea
I'll have to check on the Sheetrock, i thought it (garage ceiling) was supposed to by fireproof as well?

by 2x LVL you mean install a beam in the garage I'm guessing. I thought the beam that they installed in the attic floor/garage ceiling was done to eliminate the need for more support like posts in the garage.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:38 AM   #12
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


2006 International Residential Code for One & Two family Dwellings
Chapter 3

SECTION R309
GARAGES AND CARPORTS
R309.1 Opening protection.
Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors.

R309.1.1 Duct penetration.
Ducts in the garage and ducts penetrating the walls or ceilings separating the dwelling from the garage shall be constructed of a minimum No. 26 gage (0.48 mm) sheet steel or other approved material and shall have no openings into the garage.

R309.1.2 Other penetrations.
Penetrations through the separation required in Section R309.2 shall be protected by filling the opening around the penetrating item with approved material to resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion.

R309.2 Separation required.
The garage shall be separated from the residence and its attic area by not less than -inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board applied to the garage side.

Garages beneath habitable rooms shall be separated from all habitable rooms above by not less than 5/8-inch (15.9 mm) Type X gypsum board or equivalent.

Where the separation is a floor-ceiling assembly, the structure supporting the separation shall also be protected by not less than 1/2-inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board or equivalent.

Garages located less than 3 feet (914 mm) from a dwelling unit on the same lot shall be protected with not less than -inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board applied to the interior side of exterior walls that are within this area.

Openings in these walls shall be regulated by Section R309.1.
This provision does not apply to garage walls that are perpendicular to the adjacent dwelling unit wall.

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Local AHJs may have additional requierments
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:40 AM   #13
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


What is this talking about?

Where the separation is a floor-ceiling assembly, the structure supporting the separation shall also be protected by not less than 1/2-inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board or equivalent.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:35 AM   #14
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Unfinished space above Garage questions?


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What is this talking about?

Where the separation is a floor-ceiling assembly, the structure supporting the separation shall also be protected by not less than 1/2-inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board or equivalent.
The most common example is a structural stud wall which would not otherwise require protection.
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Old 02-11-2009, 12:59 PM   #15
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The most common example is a structural stud wall which would not otherwise require protection.
It seems redundant to me.

The first part of the above codes says....

The garage shall be separated from the residence and its attic area by not less than -inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board applied to the garage side.

Which means anywhere the garage and the residence or attic share the same wall, 1/2 drywall must be there on the garage side.

Now if the ceiling of the garage is the floor a habitual space (Where the separation is a floor-ceiling assembly, and there is a wall to support that ceiling/floor, wouldn't that wall be in the garage, or a wall of the garage, thus already covered by the first part of the code? Maybe an example exists where the supporting structure is outside of the garage and I just can't picture it in my head.

OH WAIT, i get it. If my ceiling/floor joist ran the other direction, and the two walls below them had no drywall (they wouldn't be next to habitibal space, that would be okay, as long as I didn't turn the space above the garage into living area......

My garage currently has drywall everywhere.

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