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Old 03-16-2013, 07:52 AM   #16
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


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So, let me get this straight...

Is the consensus that you can use screws for partition walls in the basement?

I am getting ready to build a short partition wall too.

What kind of screws are needed for the treated 2x4?
Use coated screws--Deck screws will work for the treated wood---

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Old 03-16-2013, 09:35 AM   #17
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


Hot dipped galvanized screws and nails are recommended for treated wood of any kind but deck screws should be fine for any area thats reasonably dry. Thesame is true for nails. Do not use screws unless in a difficult nailing area. Toe nailing over your head certainly qualifies. Screws are not as strong for the same size. They are expensive and slow. A special driver or clutches are not required even with square drive. ONE HINT One of those cordless impact screwdrivers if you have one works excellent for driving long square drive screws with less stripping
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:08 AM   #18
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


Splitting is less likely with screws and withdrawal resistance is higher, but without a clutch you're more likely to over or under tighten them so all bets are off. You can also stall and overheat your driver without a clutch.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:19 AM   #19
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


True - you should watch for overheating if driving a lot of screws and use a clutch if you have one. The cutches quit working on my drivers long ago so I just set them on drill at low speed with no problem
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:39 PM   #20
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


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Red----Toe nailing is difficult a,especially over head.

Is there a reason the wall can not be built on the ground and dragged into position?

Often that is not an option in a basement----

Screws (gold ones,not black ones) will work for a partition wall----Square drive is easier to work than phillips---
Main reason is lack of room. I don't have a single area in my basement right now where I have room to lay down a wall, with the lumber, dricore and other supplies taking up most of the room. Could do it in the crawlspace but trying to get it out might be tricky. Even for putting up the walls in the crawlspace itself there's lot of stuff like pipes in the way. Second reason is the floor is very uneven. I have to measure and cut each stud individually and they will be different sizes! Trying to get this to be as straight as possible so dry walling will be easier, as it will be my first time doing that too once I get to that point.

As for the PT lumber, so I can't use the standard nails? What about if I get a framing nailer, would those nails work for the bottom too? I'm thinking I might just go that route to save some time. Given I have a whole basement to do it may be worthwhile. Then I have my garage which I'll do in a couple years. I'll just have to find another use for all those nails I bought. Now if I get a nailer will it be easy to toe nail with that or are they more designed to shoot the nails straight?
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:49 PM   #21
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


if your using screws for framing and using a cordless drill dont worry about the clutch. you need all the torque of the tool.. if its drywall scrws where setting a screw too deep actually matters thats when a clutch is needed
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:53 PM   #22
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


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if I get a nailer will it be easy to toe nail with that or are they more designed to shoot the nails straight?
It will be easier, but nailers could be dangerous so make sure you follow the rules with the nailer and your ladder. All four feet of the ladder should be on the ground. If the floor is too uneven for that, then look up the products for making ladders even on uneven ground. Normally you want the ladder facing the wall but since you'll be nailing into the side of the studs it's probably better to angle the ladder. But I'd be afraid to use a nailer on a ladder. I'd think about building the wall in sections that fit on the floor and using shims or something to eliminate the need for uneven studs. I'm not sure either is a good idea, but I'd investigate that.
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:09 PM   #23
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


Nailers are excellent tools but as Dorado said they can be dangerous. They work for toenailing but be careful. If you angle is off you may have a nail richocetting around the room. I can attest that they hurt when stuck into you. Watch your hands on the other side of the board from your nailer as well. You can probably rent one as yhey are quite expensive to buy. For most you need a fairly large compressor and some good hose as well. As for treated wood your standard coated nails should be fine.

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Old 03-16-2013, 05:05 PM   #24
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


If you have a compressor check out a palm nailer for an option or possibly rent both for a day. It looks to me like one would work well to toe nail. Check them out on Y tube.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:54 PM   #25
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


having multiple nails for the nail gun is ideal but expensive if you do not use it for a living. for the sake of simplicity buy electro galvanized nails for the project and you will not have to be concerned with the studs not sticking to the treated plate years down the road from corroded nails. the good thing about the galvanized (electro) nails is you can do an outdoor project as well. the galv nails cost more but have multiple options for use, with interior framing nails you are stuck using them inside only and they are not recommended for sticking the studs to the treated plate...
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:57 PM   #26
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


Toe-nailing is weaker than end nailing, about 1/3; see footnote; http://www.sizes.com/tools/nails_common_wire.htm

IMO, gold-plated screws rust fast where the head slots deformed when driving, and along the treads if you have inspected them a few years later in a damp environment (as your wall after blocking the room air-currents from drying the slab/concrete walls). Different guns toe-nail differently, depends on the integral nose-piece, a whole discussion. Palm nailer uses repetitive blows on the fastener head, loosening/knocking off more coating each time rather than one hit from a bigger gun. Electro coated nails are fine- from a major brand name. Some generic ones are plated at less than the suggested 50/.0020 thickness per ASTM B695, so they deteriorate faster with the new treatments for wood, hence the lower cost; http://nucor-fastener.com/Files/PDFs...alvanizing.pdf

“Hot-dip galvanized or stainless steel fasteners, anchors and hardware are recommended by the Preservative Treated Wood Industry for use with treated wood. This has been the position of this industry for years and their position has not changed with the transition to the alternative copper-based products. In the past this industry did not address the required levels of galvanizing, however most of those in the industry now provide information regarding the minimum level of galvanizing that should be used.
The thicker the galvanized coating the longer the expected service life of the fastener, connector, anchor, or other hardware will be. Electroplated / electro galvanized and mechanically galvanized coatings should not be considered to be hot-dip galvanized. (Class 55, or higher, mechanical galvanizing provides galvanizing equivalent to the hot-dip galvanizing used on connectors and fasteners. Ref. ASTM B695 for additional information.)
It is also worth noting that the galvanized coating thickness varies depending on the galvanizing process used. Remember, the thicker the galvanized coating, the longer the expected service life of the steel will be.” From; http://www.strongtie.com/productuse/...aqs.html#links

Moisture can wick through your p.t. bottom plate (treated against bugs/mold not moisture/water) to the fasteners/studs/insulation unless there is a poly vapor barrier plastic under the slab; http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...-building-code

IMO, add 1” XPS under the plate for a capillary/thermal/air break from the cold earth below. The walls would be thermal “heat sinks” without decoupling them. AVERAGE surface temps for your location are close to 38*F, with 6’ below-ground temps 10*F warmer; or 48-52*F. http://nsidc.org/fgdc/maps/gtmap_can_us_browse.html
Basement floor, page 4; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...g-your-basment

Use rigid foamboard directly against concrete wall, air-tight the drywall, f.b. the rim joists to insulate/air-seal, no gaps around cavity insulation anywhere. No new wood touching CMU unless protected with plastic. Caulk a bead between rim joist/concrete block for an air-seal, plywood/other for a fire-stop at space between top plate/rim joist to prevent an outlet fire from accessing floor joist cavities above and every 10’ horizontally per minimum U.S. codes, yours are probably similar.


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Old 03-17-2013, 02:24 PM   #27
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


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Toe-nailing is weaker than end nailing, about 1/3; see footnote; http://www.sizes.com/tools/nails_common_wire.htm
It says "For nails driven parallel to the grain or toe-nailed, the load should not be more than 2/3 of the value." End nailing drives the nail parallel to the grain of the stud, which I think would be considered the "main member." So end nailing as well as toe nailing is considered about 2/3 as strong as when the nail is driven "perpendicular to the grain, into the main member, in Douglas Fir." The only way to frame a wall with the full strength of perpendicular-to-the-grain nailing, as far as I could figure, is by using brackets.

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The results of withdrawal tests with multiple nail joints in which the piece attached is pulled directly away from the main member show that slant driving is usually superior to straight driving when nails are driven into dry wood and pulled immediately, and decidedly superior when nails are driven into green or partially dry wood that is allowed season for a month or more. However, the loss of depth of penetration due to slant driving may, in some types of joints, offset the advantages of slant nailing. Cross slant driving groups of nails is usually somewhat more effective than parallel slant driving.
The Encyclopedia of Wood, 1989.
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:47 PM   #28
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


I believe you are mixing side grain/end grain and the two members. Here is a clearer explanation. "The allowable design load for laterally loaded toe nails is 0.83 times the lateral loaded design value for nails driven into side grain.” From "Toe nailing", pp. 77; http://books.google.com/books?id=2gn...rength&f=false


Easy enough to confuse, I found the 1/3 of the length of the nail to start the fastener above the plate at a 30*angle- helpful as well.


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Old 03-17-2013, 04:04 PM   #29
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


Looking at the pic....if that had been me, I would have put up the top plate first and then used a palm nailer from the top.

Normally, a wall would need 2 top plates....but since this wall is non load bearing......but....one option would be to build the wall on the floor making it the thickness of one 2x4 short (1.5"). Once the wall is nailed together....lift up into place...then shove a 2x4 between the wall and the joists.....or, put the 2x4 up against the joists where you want it nailing through the 2x4 into the joist....then put the wall up and nail from the 2nd plate to the top plate.
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Old 03-17-2013, 04:12 PM   #30
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Is there a method to cross nailing? I seem to be no good at it.


Google isn't giving me access to that page, but I could see how that's true for lateral loads on a wall, especially in the right direction. But is a lateral load the most important load to consider? If the plates warp and pull away from each other, I'd think a toenailed frame would be stronger. I'd like to see a specific recommendation for wall framing, not one that says "this is good for this kind of load."

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