Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-08-2012, 08:27 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 12
Share |
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


I just had 4 6x6x12 pt posts delivered from an area lumber yard, not a big box. There is some checking already present, that I am okay with - it will happen at some point, but the color seems off.
Not real sure why I decided to read the tag on the end but I did. They are CCA treated posts, but what worries me more than anything is that the date on the tag is 2007 on the left and 2008 on the right. They also state ".60 PCF STRUCTURAL FARM USE ONLY NOT TO BE USED IN DECK APPLICATIONS". The 2x12's that were delivered with it are MCA but have a date of 2011 2012.
The posts will be used to build a pergola.


Did I get old stuff? Is this an issue? Or am I ignorant?

Thanks - Matt

mcjones is offline  
Old 08-08-2012, 08:43 PM   #2
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,165
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


I am guessing the tags are accurate, since CCA has not been used for several years. I believe virtually all PT lumber is now ACQ. That said, there is nothing wrong with CCA, except that it is toxic (the A is arsenic). This may be why it is not rated for deck use, not really sure. If the lumber was kept in a controlled environment since production, there is nothing wrong with it structurally, only that toxicity issue.

Daniel Holzman is offline  
Old 08-08-2012, 08:49 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 26,166
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


Strange, first time I've seen one of those tags.
See if this helps.
http://www.awpa.com/references/homeowner.asp
joecaption is offline  
Old 08-08-2012, 08:57 PM   #4
Haverhill Trade 1965
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 532
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


If I recall CCA is copper chromimum arsenate (not sure of spelling). The CCA should have had the number 40 with it for true pressure treated. If you cut it and it isn't uniform green all through, (lighter in the center), it isn't true PT. If the lumber yard isn't a high volume place it may be old as it wasn't environmentally friendly and has been replaced by the newer type probably the MCA. The farm use only sounds like one that is dipped in CCA, not put in a vacuum chamber then injected with CCA drawing it all the way through the cells. Being 6 x 6 I would bet they are landscape timbers. The dates may be a range of compliance, not mfg. dates. Did you tell them what they are for? I would call them and ask. Just FYI, CCA is basically a type of salt and arsenic.
Duckweather is offline  
Old 08-08-2012, 09:46 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 12
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


Thanks for all of the useful info.

The yard is reputable and has been around for decades, so I don't think that is an issue. I did inform them of the project so they would load me up straight boards, which they have done.

I found the website for the company that produces the end product and they show CCA as being approved for commercial, industrial, farming, and highway use. Should I be concerned about the arsenic since the pergola is over my deck. I also intend to stain the entire project, so will that create and issues. Maybe I am over reacting but I just have a funny feeling about it.

I know the yard will stand behind what they delivered and can take it back, but I am sure all they have is CCA in 6x6x12.

I don't mind going to the box stores since they keep plenty in stock. Do you know what they treat with for residential use?? I can check with them tomorrow, just thought I would ask if anyone here knows. I have seen plenty of stock in each of the local box stores.
mcjones is offline  
Old 08-09-2012, 03:20 AM   #6
Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 391
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjones View Post
Thanks for all of the useful info.

The yard is reputable and has been around for decades, so I don't think that is an issue. I did inform them of the project so they would load me up straight boards, which they have done.

I found the website for the company that produces the end product and they show CCA as being approved for commercial, industrial, farming, and highway use. Should I be concerned about the arsenic since the pergola is over my deck. I also intend to stain the entire project, so will that create and issues. Maybe I am over reacting but I just have a funny feeling about it.

I know the yard will stand behind what they delivered and can take it back, but I am sure all they have is CCA in 6x6x12.

I don't mind going to the box stores since they keep plenty in stock. Do you know what they treat with for residential use?? I can check with them tomorrow, just thought I would ask if anyone here knows. I have seen plenty of stock in each of the local box stores.
First of all, greetings from neighboring Pittsville! What yard did you buy your lumber from?

CCA stands for Chromated Copper Arsenate. The main issue with the stuff is that arsenic is a known carcinogen. Back around 2003-2004, manufacturers of CCA treated wood products reached a voluntary agreement with the EPA to stop using it for consumer applications. Since then, CCA treated wood has been used primarily for industrial, farm, highway and marine use. Personally, I wouldn't use the stuff around my house. If you do decide to use it, be sure to wear proper eye protection, gloves and a respirator when cutting the lumber.

Some of the alternatives:

ACQ - Alkaline Copper Quaternary
MCQ - Micronized Copper Quaternary
CA - Copper Azole
MCA - Micronized Copper Azole

There are various formulations of both ACQ and CA. At this time, all are considered to be safe for humans and the environment. If I recall correctly, CA is less corrosive to fasteners than ACQ. I've also been told that less CA is needed to achieve effective levels of treatment, so the wood tends to be drier than that treated with ACQ. In ACQ and CA, the copper is dissolved in a chemical reaction. In MCQ and MCA, the copper is ground to micro sized particles and suspended in water. Apparently, the small particle size allows the copper to penetrate deeper into wood cell walls. As a result, the micronized treatments are supposedly more effective.

Here on the Eastern Shore, Lowes seems to carry mostly ACQ while Home Depot carries mostly MCA. I buy a lot of my treated lumber from Delaware Lumber and to date it's all been MCA.

Last edited by Pittsville; 08-09-2012 at 03:25 AM.
Pittsville is offline  
Old 08-09-2012, 07:29 PM   #7
Member
 
robertcdf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 655
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


Unless you plan on starting every morning by licking your pergola posts, or rasping off some sawdust into your morning coffee you have nothing to worry about with the CCA, in fact you're lucky, the CCA treatment was a MUCH better form of PT than ACQ and just a little better than the other common treatments available today.
robertcdf is offline  
Old 08-09-2012, 08:35 PM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 12
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcdf View Post
Unless you plan on starting every morning by licking your pergola posts, or rasping off some sawdust into your morning coffee you have nothing to worry about with the CCA, in fact you're lucky, the CCA treatment was a MUCH better form of PT than ACQ and just a little better than the other common treatments available today.

Nice! I'd hate to start the morning with a six inch splinter in my tounge. Thanks for the input but I already swapped out for MCA.
mcjones is offline  
Old 08-09-2012, 08:40 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 12
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


Hello neighbor! Stopped by Delaware lumber today and picked up some replacements, MCA. You were dead on with the Lowes and HD, and they are each about $10 more/piece.

Not sure if it is the copper or residual water, or a combination of both, but the MCA seems to weigh twice as much as the CCA.
mcjones is offline  
Old 08-09-2012, 08:50 PM   #10
Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 391
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjones
Hello neighbor! Stopped by Delaware lumber today and picked up some replacements, MCA. You were dead on with the Lowes and HD, and they are each about $10 more/piece.

Not sure if it is the copper or residual water, or a combination of both, but the MCA seems to weigh twice as much as the CCA.
Thats been my experience as well - Delaware Lumber being $10 less on average than the big box stores.

Its possible that the MCA was treated more recently and therefore, is retaining more water. Water is pretty heavy, so I imagine there could be a noticable difference.
Pittsville is offline  
Old 08-09-2012, 10:01 PM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


#1 you were lucky there were tags on the wood. Before 2003 alot of cca treated wood did not have a tag I would not use the cca on or around the home. I built a raparound deck around my home with a double deck in the back of the home. This cca wood had no lable on it. My home was taped off by the Health Dept. because of arsenic levels found inside and outside the home. The state, Local Health Dept, ATSDR, and EPA all have been involved with my property. Arsenic is on the surface of the wood and arsenic can lead to cancer. I would advise for you to go to the CPSC and ATSDR web pages by googleing CPSC cca treatd wood or use ATSDR instead of CPSC.
Another issue is when this type of wood burns it can leave behind toxic amounts of arsenic. Will your insurance cover it if your house burns? I have been denied by insurance companys do to the contamination and liability.
The other question is just because it has the AWPA stamp on it means nothing to me. This wood is pressure treated and shipped. Only some of it has been tested not all of it.
alm1958 is offline  
Old 08-10-2012, 01:43 AM   #12
Member
 
robertcdf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 655
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


Quote:
Originally Posted by alm1958 View Post
#1 you were lucky there were tags on the wood. Before 2003 alot of cca treated wood did not have a tag I would not use the cca on or around the home. I built a raparound deck around my home with a double deck in the back of the home. This cca wood had no lable on it. My home was taped off by the Health Dept. because of arsenic levels found inside and outside the home. The state, Local Health Dept, ATSDR, and EPA all have been involved with my property. Arsenic is on the surface of the wood and arsenic can lead to cancer. I would advise for you to go to the CPSC and ATSDR web pages by googleing CPSC cca treatd wood or use ATSDR instead of CPSC.
Another issue is when this type of wood burns it can leave behind toxic amounts of arsenic. Will your insurance cover it if your house burns? I have been denied by insurance companys do to the contamination and liability.
The other question is just because it has the AWPA stamp on it means nothing to me. This wood is pressure treated and shipped. Only some of it has been tested not all of it.
WHAT? Then why has there not been countless hundreds of thousands of these cases all over the place? The levels of arsenic in the old PT was not in levels enough to harm, there had been countless studies to prove so. Here is a good read about veggies grown in garden beds NEXT to CCA wood, http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...wood-dangerous you'd have to eat a lot to get sick. I don't believe your story for one second, please post the related news article. Thanks
robertcdf is offline  
Old 08-10-2012, 09:51 PM   #13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcdf View Post
WHAT? Then why has there not been countless hundreds of thousands of these cases all over the place? The levels of arsenic in the old PT was not in levels enough to harm, there had been countless studies to prove so. Here is a good read about veggies grown in garden beds NEXT to CCA wood, http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...wood-dangerous you'd have to eat a lot to get sick. I don't believe your story for one second, please post the related news article. Thanks
First of all the links are below and how do you know people hasnt been or gotten sick from cca treated wood. How does arsenic affect the body. If people gotten sick and recovered do you think they would know it came from the wood. Arsenic causes cancer among other health issues from what i have read through the ATSDR which is a hell of alot smarter than you. Has anyone died of cancer related to the arsenic in cca treated wood? This wood was sold for years with the term salt treated being used. Did they tell you not to clean it with deck cleaners or products with bleach in it. Did they give out all the warnings to the public. What about your kids playing on it. What about animals chewing or drinking pooled water after a rain. What about if you house burns do you have coverage to cleanup the toxic ash left behind. Did they tell you about the cancer risk to children which was a study done by the CPSC and EPA. Was the wood properly treated. Has the fixation taken place. Does it leach into surrounding soil under and around the deck for your kids to play in.

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/indiana/poisonous-wood-leads-man-to-statehouse
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=13202494

http://www.whas11.com/news/crimetracker/I-Team-Preview-Treated-wood-investigation-124730864.html
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/indiana/epa-issues-new-lumber-warning
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/south_central/hoosier-warns-about-ccas-dangers
http://www.wsfa.com/story/13202494/madison-family-says-tainted-wood-poisoned-them?clienttype=printable
http://www.wave3.com/story/15009368/claims-of-southern-in-man-help-create-new-warning-about-toxic-wood-dangers?clienttype=printable
alm1958 is offline  
Old 08-10-2012, 11:17 PM   #14
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


Mr. robertcdf

I looked at the link you had on your post. Its looks to me you are a deck builder. I understand why you are trying to down play the dangers of cca treated wood. Did you install these cca decks for your customers? Did you tell them about the dangers and hazards? Was the wood you installed properly treated or fixed? I can see why you would be upset. Did you tell them about the cancer risk, dangers to animals, and that their insurance may not cover the toxic ash left if it burnt? Did you tell them not to use deck cleaners and what could happen if they did?
Here is some other links you might want to read.

http://www.bancca.org/CCA_Victims/CCA_victims.htm
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/270.pdf
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/CCA-Treated_Wood_Factsheet.pdf
alm1958 is offline  
Old 08-10-2012, 11:27 PM   #15
Member
 
robertcdf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 655
Default

Tags on Pressure Treated Lumber


Quote:
Originally Posted by alm1958 View Post
Mr. robertcdf

I looked at the link you had on your post. Its looks to me you are a deck builder. I understand why you are trying to down play the dangers of cca treated wood. Did you install these cca decks for your customers? Did you tell them about the dangers and hazards? Was the wood you installed properly treated or fixed? I can see why you would be upset. Did you tell them about the cancer risk, dangers to animals, and that their insurance may not cover the toxic ash left if it burnt? Did you tell them not to use deck cleaners and what could happen if they did?
Here is some other links you might want to read.

http://www.bancca.org/CCA_Victims/CCA_victims.htm
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/270.pdf
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/CCA-Treated_Wood_Factsheet.pdf
Actually I use steel frames, and I don't use PT wood for anything because it's garbage. However the "ban" was actually voluntary if it was SO bad it would have been a mandatory ban. There are tons of studies that show you have to consume a stupid amount of sawdust for it to affect people (including children)

robertcdf is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Staining pressure treated lumber alexj212 Painting 8 03-13-2011 09:26 PM
Best way to attach pressure treated wood to painted siding ? 1freebird Building & Construction 1 09-30-2009 10:02 PM
pressure treated lumber - Painting Question slim one Painting 1 05-05-2009 06:35 PM
Galvanized Flashing with ACQ Treated Lumber? Ler0y Jenkins General DIY Discussions 5 05-18-2008 10:59 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.