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Old 12-20-2011, 08:26 AM   #31
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T-intersection - fence gets hit constantly


heh...ok, since we have preposterous going on:

-what about a large magnet that picks up the car once it hits your property and lifts it up into the air?

-install rubber bands or bumbers so that when they hit it, it bounces the person backwards (springs could work too.)

-create a hotwheels highbank curve 8 ft tall so that they swing around past your property and on their way.

-petition the county for a toll booth and person to collect a toll for violators who wont stop at your intersection.

-dig a tunnell under your property so that they go under your house and onto your neighbors.

-how about a giant trap door that leads to a moat with flesh eating piranha?


Seriously.. I would go directly to the county, government authorities and ask them to install rumble strips before the intersection and speed bumps at the intersection. You can buy cheap reflector tape to put on the intersection stop sign or nearby poles as a reminder. But I also think that yes, you could probably install some landscaping boulders right at your property line, and then have your fence behind it. I wouldnt build the rock wall 10 ft high, but I could see a couple foot barrier of boulders. If someone hits the boulders, it will stop the car, cause severe enough damage to their car, but not so immoveable that it kills them.

But try the legal process first, in writing, so that if all else fails, youre protecting yourself down the road in case a lawsuit follows.

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Old 12-20-2011, 09:33 AM   #32
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:rofl.

China girl - let us know what you find out when you petition and query about your legal options.

I think you should explore multiple options - all this has been mentioned, but I think doing them together is ideal.

1) Make use of deterrents and visuals (paint, signs, lights, arrows, etc) . . . these are imposing on you - they aren't intrusive - they aren't terribly costly - and might not prevent issues but I'm sure they'd draw attention to the 'no go' factor - thus displacing some personal responsibility from *you* if someone overlooks all these many things - it just emphasizes how stupid they're being. Leaving your defense if they're injured on "well - the fence was CLEARLY MARKED."

2) As a back-up: I would do a sand-pit - it would have to be dug out, the length calculated based on the desired need of length to stop a car traveling X miles per hour.


So: What have you done in the past regarding these issues? Have you talked to police - filed reports or anything of that nature? What do they say you should do?

I'd read up on the state's obligation to you if they're responsible for ensuring relative road safety - and you're unsafe because of faults in their department (IE: they should cover the cost of SIGNS, etc)
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Old 12-20-2011, 10:43 AM   #33
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T-intersection - fence gets hit constantly


For a quick method to help make the fence more noticeable, I like the idea of the refectors for visibility. They're not expensive compared to fence repairs. It does sound like the municipality needs to do something to make the intersection safer. Some things to consider when looking into this are....

Who owns the roadway & right of way?

Is it the town, village, city, county or state? Knowing exactly which party is responsible can save time & aggravation by contacting the right one to begin with.

Is the roadway constructed & marked appropriately?


Roads are supposed to be constructed to a certain, minimum standard which may be regulated by the Highway Department within the municipality it's in. Sometimes the municipality has their own standards, or they may use the state standards. Whichever standard, the road will be legal, or illegal, when enforcement of a violation takes place.

This can be confusing, but what it comes down to is, the person who has the accident "may not be at fault" if the road wasn't constructed correctly. (That includes signs & pavement markings for safety.) This can be difficult to determine without consulting a professional, such as an engineer with road construction experience, but if the municipality doesn't feel like making the road improvements, a letter telling them their road is inadequate & unsafe may prompt them to do something.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:01 PM   #34
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T-intersection - fence gets hit constantly


As of this evening, I have a lit Santa Clause and a lit Star hanging on the very spot that was ruined. The best part is that Santa is pointing to the left.... if there were a word bubble over his head, it would say "TURN!! TURN!!"

Reflector strips will be put up when the thing gets fixed. And I'm going with the boulders -- soon as I am certain of my property's boundary.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:25 PM   #35
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You either made it very obvious and a sin to kill santa.

Or a new neighborhood kid target. '

I like that you got out there quick and did something - that's good initiative. I'm lazy: I'll recognize an issue - years later I'll ask for solutions - years later I'll consider implimenting the solutions - eventually I'll do it.

Rounding out to about 15 years or so for the average job.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:34 PM   #36
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Ironlight - what I would give to be able to do the moat! Snav - no sand pit either. I asked Road and Bridge and it would cause 'drainage issues'. Robertcdf - you are absolutely right. I have 5 beautiful granddaughters. They deserve to feel safe in my back yard, and so do I.

Big Guy 01 - Can you recommend a link so I can see the spike strips? Can they be made with rebar? I like the idea.....

Bob Deb and Snav - excellent advice - and I need to get it all in writing. Maybe the county will get tired of me gracing their doorstep especially if it is determined to be an unsafe intersection. Amazing how difficult it is to get them to DO anything.

The past? I've owned the place for 7 months. It's sad how many times it's been hit in such a short time. My neighbor has called the county, I've called the county, and the sheriff has made reports so that should help with determining if the road is unsafe.

There is a Stop sign at the end of the T. My neighbor told me that last year he watched a sheriff site 3 or 4 people every day for a week for running the sign. If that isn't enough, there is a new subdivision going in on one side of the T and the county said they will NOT be installing any street lights!!!

So yeah - it's going to be a battle, and thanks to ALL of you, I have a really good idea of what needs to be done. And Pyper, you are right - let 'em take down an inexpensive sign. Let it be as Clearly Marked as possible.

But the BEST, most brilliant idea was yours, WISCBLDR: The Hot Wheels High bank!!! I can see it!! And damn, did that one (of many great ones) make me laugh!!

I'll update you all with what the county does (or doesn't) do.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:38 PM   #37
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I know the photo is blurry, but there he is... lighting the way.

Yes! It is a SIN to kill Santa!!! (I just noticed - you can still see the tire tracks in the snow... )
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:07 PM   #38
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Wow - did someone roll through that sucker just recently?

I'm nervous for you and I really hope you get someone to STEP IT UP - heavens forbid someone plow through while you'er *out there* heavens!
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:17 PM   #39
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Yup -- it was hit last Thursday night - (early Friday morning). So -- 5 days ago. Took out 3 posts. Amazingly the 8' sections stayed pretty much in tact; one on the ground, one leaning on my tree, and one twisted sideways. I was able (as you can see) to put it back up relatively well, with bracing in the back yard to strengthen it until it gets replaced. I wonder if it held together so well because it was screwed together rather than nailed? Or maybe because he hit a post dead-on...

And yeah, I worry about the kids who like to play right in front of that fence as there is usually a little sheet of ice there for them to "skate" on. Hmmm. I should add that to the "discussion" with the county.

**** I take that back -- a WEEK and 5 days ago. Time flies....****

Last edited by Chinagirl; 12-20-2011 at 09:56 PM. Reason: wrong date.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:50 PM   #40
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Yup -- it was hit last Thursday night - (early Friday morning). So -- 5 days ago. Took out 3 posts. Amazingly the 8' sections stayed pretty much in tact; one on the ground, one leaning on my tree, and one twisted sideways. I was able (as you can see) to put it back up relatively well, with bracing in the back yard to strengthen it until it gets replaced. I wonder if it held together so well because it was screwed together rather than nailed? Or maybe because he hit a post dead-on...

And yeah, I worry about the kids who like to play right in front of that fence as there is usually a little sheet of ice there for them to "skate" on. Hmmm. I should add that to the "discussion" with the county.
Absolutely.

I mean: do they really want THAT to fall on their hands. . . how would that look on national TV the day after a tragic incident occurs and two neighborhood children are playing.

Honestly: I'd get parents in the area to support you on this.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:58 PM   #41
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Good call --- There are a lot of parents in this neighborhood, mostly military moms and dads. I'm SURE they would all be willing to back me up on getting this intersection secured somehow. I've spoken to my close neighbors, but not the rest of the area. Great idea -- Thanks!
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Old 12-20-2011, 10:04 PM   #42
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Good call --- There are a lot of parents in this neighborhood, mostly military moms and dads. I'm SURE they would all be willing to back me up on getting this intersection secured somehow. I've spoken to my close neighbors, but not the rest of the area. Great idea -- Thanks!
You know: those types of stories don't get on the TV for *no* reason - report your issue to a local news station if they don't take more interest or show real concern.

Shoot: years ago in our town it was hot tv news when someone was just joyriding in yards and ripping up grass with a 4-wheeler.
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:29 PM   #43
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The past? I've owned the place for 7 months. It's sad how many times it's been hit in such a short time. My neighbor has called the county, I've called the county, and the sheriff has made reports so that should help with determining if the road is unsafe.

There is a Stop sign at the end of the T. My neighbor told me that last year he watched a sheriff site 3 or 4 people every day for a week for running the sign. If that isn't enough, there is a new subdivision going in on one side of the T and the county said they will NOT be installing any street lights!!!
Your approach so far has been wrong. You don't call, you write. Real letters, not email. Certified mail, with copies to the director of public works and possibly your elected County representatives. I tell you this as someone who spent many years in this field and was the receiver of such letters. Phone calls? They never happened. Letters however have to go into a file, and are subject to discovery for lawsuits. The sheriff doesn't deem a situation unsafe, the engineering department makes the call. But they use accident data from the sheriff. Even if the sheriff doesn't come out to do a report, most municipalities have a procedure where you can come in and make a "desk report", which goes into their system as an accident.

Just because an intersection is marked and signed per "standards", that doesn't mean it's OK. A cluster of accidents means more work is needed due to site specifics. If the preponderence of accidents is at night, that usually means the need for a lot of reflectorized warning markers and/or a streetlight. Engineers can look at an intersection layout and its traffic volumes and calculate how many accidents would be expected there, based upon averages for your area. If you exceed that number, something is wrong.

And even if someone is drunk doesn't mean you write off that accident to just plain drunk driving. Drunk drivers expose the weakest areas in traffic signage due to their limited cognitive skills.

Case in point: My town has a lovely plaza surrounded by a traffic circle. With annoying regularity, drunks ending up driving into the plaza, failing to turn onto the circle, occasionally hitting a historic fountain in its center. But oddly, even though the 4 approach streets to the circle had about the same traffic volumes, the drunks seemed to smash into the plaza from the east-west streets and not the north-south ones. Jersey barriers were considered, but would have looked like crap and ruined the historic look of the plaza.

So we looked at the plaza at night and low and behold the layout of the lighting and landscaping made it sort of appear one could drive right through it in the east-west direction, at least in a drunk's mind. That wasn't the case for the north-south streets as they had their through views blocked by plaza landscaping. So we added some landscaping to the east-west streets to block the through view, and re-striped the east-west approaches to make the drivers turn to the right for entry into the traffic circle. This was reinforced by the addition of large, raised pavement markers the size of grapefruits. Guess what...The east-west plaza intrusions dropped to very low levels, on par with north-south accidents. Problem solved.

I'm just using this rather long story as an example of simple, inexpensive things that can be done once the precise nature of the problem is determined. It's unlikely drunk drivers WANT to crash through your fence. They want to make the turn but something site specific makes it beyond their abilities.

I hope your county engineering guys have some smarts.....
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Old 12-21-2011, 06:30 AM   #44
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T-intersection - fence gets hit constantly


Maybe an uprootable steel pole base may be worthwhile after all. For each fence post location have a pole at least 4 inches in diameter embedded in a 12 inch diameter two foot deep concrete footing. The pole should be filled with concrete if it is hollow. If the pole itself is not the full height of the fence then you would have to fabricate the wood or whatever fence posts to fit around the metal pole.

If a car hits the post hard enough to knock the post down, the concrete footing will uproot and assist in stopping the car.

An alternative to swinging fence panels might be slicing the fence panel horizontally with the bottom section about 27 inches high and fastened loosely so it could be pushed in quite easily. A stout firmly fastened horizontal support rail remains at the lower edge of the upper section so as to use the car's body (the bumper goes under it) to help absorb energy and slow the car's motion.

Not saying you should do this one but what would happen if you installed a flashing red light with a lens at least 8 inches in diameter behind the fence and facing down the street?
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:13 PM   #45
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T-intersection - fence gets hit constantly


One other thing I would suggest (if you aren't already doing it) is to document everything. If you have filed police reports do you have copies? If not keep track (with pictures) of when each episode happens.
When talking to bureaucracies, you will be taken more seriously if you can cite dates etc. than just saying it happens "a lot".

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