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-   -   sure-up hardiplank siding - how? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/sure-up-hardiplank-siding-how-174856/)

denemante 03-18-2013 12:21 PM

sure-up hardiplank siding - how?
 
My home was painted about 5 years ago. Yet on the side that gets the sun, cracks are now visible at the seams. Additionally, the siding appears to have become a tad lose at those seams, or needs to be nailed back down.

How do I nail it back it? Do I drill a hole the same size as the nail, and just drive it into the sub-wall? Or would that create a spot for leaking?

And I'd rather not repaint. Might I use clear silicon in the gaps, going very carefully to not get any on the outside?

joecaption 03-18-2013 12:28 PM

Are you talking about the butt joints?
If so James Hardee changed there install directions and now suggest to use no caulking at those joints and to use a strip of tar paper behind every joint.
You would never want to use silicone, it can not be painted.
Predilling a small hole only through the panel about 3" back from the joint an 1" up so it did not crack the panel and use stainless steel siding nails is what I would use.

denemante 03-18-2013 12:34 PM

Thanks Joe,

Yes, the butt joints - where two horizonal siding piece meet each other.

Boy, not having to recaulk those joints would be a dream. I'm gonna guess I already have tar paper behind those joints - wouldn't that be standard practice with siding? Thus - technically - I could do nothing?

If for some reason I don't have tar paper - I wonder if there is some other product I could retro-fit up and behind each seam? Like some piece of flashing I could hammer up behind the joint...

joecaption 03-18-2013 12:38 PM

Good luck with that idea. Not sure how you would slid it in without breaking the panel.
Is there house wrap behind the siding?

RTC_wa 03-18-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denemante (Post 1140058)
Thanks Joe,

Yes, the butt joints - where two horizonal siding piece meet each other.

Boy, not having to recaulk those joints would be a dream. I'm gonna guess I already have tar paper behind those joints - wouldn't that be standard practice with siding? Thus - technically - I could do nothing?

If for some reason I don't have tar paper - I wonder if there is some other product I could retro-fit up and behind each seam? Like some piece of flashing I could hammer up behind the joint...

you don't need to predrill any holes just go and nail it and Joe is right no caulking the butt joints. A few years ago had my house resided and the contractor was using 9" long x 12 inches wide 30# felt behide the joints I thought he was crazy and I asked him to caulk the joints. he shook his head got down from his ladder and said get in my truck and took me for a drive and showed me homes that were caulked and how the caulk faied and looks awful and stuff and said that is why drove back and finished the job. so yes Joe is right on the money there.

jagans 03-18-2013 01:22 PM

Stratolite asbestos siding used to come with a pack of precut strips of felt to put behind every joint back in the fifties and sixties. This is old hat. Did Hardie forget, or did they just not know?

denemante 03-18-2013 01:45 PM

I'm note quite sure I understand here...I was told that for my home, I should actually use white caulk and paint it. Perhaps the no caulk rule, or the tarpaper rule wasn't established when my house was built.

So if I can look and see tar paper in the seam - I can then just do nothing?

You noted about those with caulk looked poor - I can't picture that - either you've got black lines on the side of your house - or you don't.

woodworkbykirk 03-18-2013 07:28 PM

do not caulk butt joints. butt the factory ends only and put tar paper, house wrap or scraps of coil stock behind them

jagans 03-18-2013 08:33 PM

Siding is going to expand and contract through thermal cycling. Hardi should have known that. There is no way caulk is going to work there. Like I said previously, Stratolite shingles for siding were only 3 feet long and they were supplied with No. 30 felt strips for the joints. The idea is to redirect the water out to the face of the siding with each successive course, like step flashing a shingle roof adjacent to a chimney.

Kapeesh? :wink:

denemante 03-18-2013 09:58 PM

This is an existing house with the siding already on it. The siding itself is in excellent condition. But there are the gaps between horizonal pieces where they butt together.

So what am I to do? You all are saying no caulk - but that's the routine painters have been doing for years. I agree - its not ideal perhaps - but what other choice is there? When we bought the house 3 years ago, the home inspector even told me that was a periodic maintenance thing.

kwikfishron 03-18-2013 10:16 PM

At the end of the day you're the one that has to look at your walls.

Hardie "now" says not to caulk the butt joints and I'm sure that comes from aesthetic issues and has nothing to do with product failure.

Caulk the joints if you wish but just be aware it will be an ongoing maintenance issue that you will have to visit again and again.

djlandkpl 03-18-2013 10:24 PM

Do you know what is under the siding? House wrap, tar paper, nothing?

You want to keep water out. If you have wrap, then skip the caulk.

woodworkbykirk 03-18-2013 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagans (Post 1140348)
Siding is going to expand and contract through thermal cycling. Hardi should have known that. There is no way caulk is going to work there. Like I said previously, Stratolite shingles for siding were only 3 feet long and they were supplied with No. 30 felt strips for the joints. The idea is to redirect the water out to the face of the siding with each successive course, like step flashing a shingle roof adjacent to a chimney.

Kapeesh? :wink:

fibre cement doesnt expand or contract from thermal expansion its a stable product

jaydevries 03-18-2013 10:45 PM

i to went through this change with hardie years ago disputing with sales rep over him telling me it will not expand and contract. and that you are to leave a preferred 1/8 but 1/16 was minimum space between butt joints so caulking could adhere to both ends of siding. i did what he said due to him being the one who sold the hardie to home owner (supervisor of a g.c.) and was involved in conversation.

my solution not fun but doable is to take aluminum step flashing non bent cut into a similar to a pie shape then spray paint close or same as siding color then sliding it under seam and nailing it with 2 stainless finish nails.

now argument sake if house is house wrapped correctly the little bit of water that can get in threw crack should shed down between siding and wrap but why take that chance

denemante 03-18-2013 11:02 PM

Here's a video I just found that echoes what you are all talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vy1l79CO1E

Whether or not the siding shrinks (as this video states it does slightly) -the bottom line is that I do have 1/8 inch gaps all over my house where the siding meets up. I'll have to peak into a gap in the AM to see if there is house wrap or tar paper. But let's assume there is. We have 80 homes in my neighborhood all built in 1998 north of Atlanta.

I see this issue around my neighborhood. People caulk the gaps, but the caulk job is never perfect - so caulk gets onto the siding and the visible lines are extremely unsightly.

This guy's video illustrates the exact problem. Caulking those gaps is a frequent maintenance thing. If you were getting your whole house repainted - sure - you could probably caulk and minimize "the caulk lines"and get them to blend. But in 6-12 months - cracks would be back.

Another issue is that even if there is wrap - there are tons of nail holes through it. If it's compromised at any place down the wall under ANY of those hundreds of siding gaps - water will be into the wood. It could be 15 feet down the wall from the gap in the siding.

So caulking is a horribly unsightly fix.

But JAYDEVRIES - can you tell me more about your solution? I like it. In fact - I've already been searching for just such a fix and I'm surprised someone doesn't sell it already.

It would seem like you could cut a triangle shape (pointed up) and craft some tool to hold it, then pry up the siding just slightly at the gap and hammer this piece up behind the gap. Even coat it with some sort of slippery glue.

If not enginnered correctly - I suspect this could add to the issue.

Anyone heard of a product?


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