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Old 07-17-2009, 11:16 AM   #1
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Supporting floor joists on non-load bearing wall?


Hi,
Hopefully this is the right forum to post this in, here goes. I'm doing a bathroom remodel that requires some re-framing of 2 x 6 floor joists in a small 1/2 bath on the second floor of my 1938 house. I want to add a small shower and rearrange the existing toilet and sink locations. My initial plan is to support short runs of 2 joists (please refer to picture "bath1") on a doubled up header that connects to a sistered joist on 1 side and then to a non-load bearing wall on the other side. This non-load bearing wall is a 2 x 4 framed divider wall between my kitchen and downstairs bath. It sits directly on top of doubled up 2 x 8 joists. The wall is a little less than 8' long, framed 16" OC and ties into load bearing walls on either end. The total length of the joists is 24'6" and these changes would be in the last 1/4 of that span. Is this always a no no? If so, are there engineered products for 2 x 6 framing?

These changes would be to accommodate a new toilet in a new location, a shower stall and a vanity. The previous toilet location resulted in a 2 x 6 joist being reduced to a 2 x 3/4 for a stretch of about 12". A little scary (see pics "bath2 and bath3"). On that front, I sistered two 2 x 6's across that chasm. One end sits on outer bearing wall but the other ends short of another bearing wall. I couldn't land on another without tearing into walls to re-route wiring. It connects to 32" of good wood and is glued and screwed to it. Is this sufficient?

Thanks,
Chris
Attached Thumbnails
Supporting floor joists on non-load bearing wall?-bath1.jpg   Supporting floor joists on non-load bearing wall?-bath2.jpg   Supporting floor joists on non-load bearing wall?-bath3.jpg  

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Old 07-17-2009, 11:45 AM   #2
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Supporting floor joists on non-load bearing wall?


In one picture you have a proposed run for a shower drain. Why not just drill the hole in the middle of the joists?

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Old 07-17-2009, 12:04 PM   #3
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Supporting floor joists on non-load bearing wall?


Maximum span for a 2x8 #2 SYP joist 16" o.c. in a residential living area is 12'10". Maximum span for a 2x6 #2 SYP joist 16" o.c. in a residential living area is 9'2". That assumes 40psf live load 10psf dead load.

I am hoping you have braced everything from below before you began hacking at the joists. If not stop everything and do so immediately. Also I see wires that are pinched and are going to be pinched when you add the sub-floor. You really need to stop and talk with an an engineer or architect and get a plan drawn up before you go any further. Also you need to get a building permit which you should have done before starting. Then you would have had a plan in hand before starting.

If you frame a wall below the kitchen wall 16 o.c. it will pick up the load and the kitchen wall will become a bearing wall also. You will need to verify load requirements and framing member sizes with your local building department.

If you sister the outside joists (you have to carry them at least to a load wall) and frame up a dbl header you may be o.k. I don't know how you are going to run your toilet drain (min 3" pipe) through a 2x6 when your only allowed a maximum hole 1/3 the depth of the framing member and must be 2" from the top or bottom.
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Old 07-17-2009, 01:35 PM   #4
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Supporting floor joists on non-load bearing wall?


Quote:
Originally Posted by framer53 View Post
In one picture you have a proposed run for a shower drain. Why not just drill the hole in the middle of the joists?
Thanks for the quick reply. The shower drain needs to be 2" and a 2 x 6 can only accommodate a 1.5" hole max.
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Old 07-17-2009, 01:59 PM   #5
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Supporting floor joists on non-load bearing wall?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ARI001 View Post
Maximum span for a 2x8 #2 SYP joist 16" o.c. in a residential living area is 12'10". Maximum span for a 2x6 #2 SYP joist 16" o.c. in a residential living area is 9'2". That assumes 40psf live load 10psf dead load.

I am hoping you have braced everything from below before you began hacking at the joists. If not stop everything and do so immediately. Also I see wires that are pinched and are going to be pinched when you add the sub-floor. You really need to stop and talk with an an engineer or architect and get a plan drawn up before you go any further. Also you need to get a building permit which you should have done before starting. Then you would have had a plan in hand before starting.

If you frame a wall below the kitchen wall 16 o.c. it will pick up the load and the kitchen wall will become a bearing wall also. You will need to verify load requirements and framing member sizes with your local building department.

If you sister the outside joists (you have to carry them at least to a load wall) and frame up a dbl header you may be o.k. I don't know how you are going to run your toilet drain (min 3" pipe) through a 2x6 when your only allowed a maximum hole 1/3 the depth of the framing member and must be 2" from the top or bottom.
Thanks for the quick reply. The length I had given for the 2 x 6 joists was overall length, not dealing with an unsupported span. The unsupported span of those joists from the bearing wall in the bottom of the one pic to the outer wall is less than 8'.

I'm in the process of getting a permit, obviously I jumped the gun. Some of the wiring will need to be re-routed,etc. I'm by no means thinking that all the work is done and a subfloor is ready to go down. I may be stupid, but I'm not crazy. (debatable, I know).

There is a wall in the basement below the wall I'd like to use as a bearing wall. I'll have to see if it is up to snuff with the building inspector. Good to know.

The drain for the toilet would not go through any of the joists that's why I'd like to head them off. I guess the sistered joists will have to be reworked. Thanks again for all the great info/advice.

Chris
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