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Old 04-13-2010, 03:22 PM   #1
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Support wall problem


The house I am in, started to bow slightly from the ceiling, I opened the ceiling/wall, and discovered what appears to be a previous exterior wall. It looks like someone enclosed a porch, and made it part of the interior space. The support wall, that was removed, probably improperly is on the roof side (as opposed to the gable side). A single 2x6 (rough cut) now spans 17' of opening (the opening is 21' long) then continues 3' further. I would like to shore this up. I am open to any suggestions. I had a local contractor look at it, he wants to put a 8" steel beam (w8x21) across the whole 21' and remove the last support. Headroom is an issue, though I can go to a 12" beam before I have a problem. Before I say ok- can I get some more advice?
Thanks in Advance.
John Kilbert
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Old 04-13-2010, 04:35 PM   #2
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Support wall problem


Any chance you can put the beam up in the ceiling?

That span (21') is way to long for a 2 x 6. You can do it with a 2 x 12 or even a 2 x6 but you will need to dramatically reduce your span between supports. Were I you I would talk to a civil or structural engineer and ask their opinion first.
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:52 PM   #3
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Support wall problem


I was looking at his estimate- It is only 14' span with a support @ 11' - he is using a 21' beam and cutting it for a post. Sorry for the mix up on my part. I would like to do it with no supports (posts) and can fit a 2x12 without any head room issues.
Thanks.
/kilbert
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Old 04-13-2010, 06:46 PM   #4
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Support wall problem


Where are you located ?
Snow load ?
All depends upon load on the new beam as to what you will need to use
Steel or LVL's is the best bet
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:28 PM   #5
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I am in NEPA Honesdale/scranton is closest large town.
according to this:
http://www.crrel.usace.army.mil/libr...ers/MP5008.pdf
Looks like 50 psf is adequate. I am open to any material, so long as it is the right strength.
Thanks
/kilbert

Last edited by kilbert; 04-13-2010 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:39 PM   #6
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Support wall problem


I went to a local lumber store (not big box) & they were able to size LVL's for my project
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:41 PM   #7
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Support wall problem


Can you post photos or diagrams? What kind of deflection, L/360, L/240, . . ., do you need? How much sag do you have at midspan with your 2x6? Is the beam uniformly loaded or does it have concentrated loads at several points?

The moment for joists is proportional to wh³, where w is the thickness and h is the height, so doubling the joist height will increase stiffness by 8x.

I'll scrounge up my tables for I beams to see what kind of stiffness that 8" I beam gives you.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 04-13-2010 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:29 PM   #8
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I will try to wrangle a camera tomorrow. I would say by eye it sags 2" in the center. I do not understand your question of L360 L240 etc.. I do know its related to deflection, which I want to keep to a minimum. I am guessing since it has an attic above it (full walk up) and the room the beam is in needs to be finished (sheetrock) I need L360.
I guess I would like to know if the W8x21 the contractor said "looks right" is correct. I can get a heavier beam or even a larger (W10x..) I have 10-12" height to add a beam before headroom becomes a nuisance. I am open to using lumber, LVL or steel. but I want to try to keep it under 12" tall and no posts.

I found the LVL table here:
http://www.parr.com/PDFs/LP%20LVL%201.9E.pdf
my situation is closest to page 4.
My span is 14 feet, and my carried span is 16 feet.
40 psi chart indicated I need a LVL at 5.25 thick and 14 " tall. I fi read correctly, This is about 2" too much for my headroom. plus I was using 50psi for snow load. I think a LVL would be easier to handle (less labor) than the steel beam though.
Thnaks,
/kilbert
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:33 PM   #9
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Support wall problem


My sunroom opening was 14' & they spec'd out either:

(2) 14" LVL's
OR
(3) 12" LVLS

I have a wall above, floor load from closet & roof from house that lands on the wall & a roof that continues from sunroom that are on this wall

Beams are sized by your specific load & conditions
Best to see if a local company can size the beam & be sure
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:15 PM   #10
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Get another estimate, one that will use an Engineer.... to take the liability from you or me.

Be safe, Gary
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:53 AM   #11
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Support wall problem


First- Thank you all for the quick replies. I have never had such fast responses.
Thanks Dave. I will ask the local lumber yard.
Gary- I understand your liability concern, but I hold none of you with any responsibility. After I get your informed OPINIONS, I will research it out more myself, then I will get with the contractor to talk about an alternate (if it is warranted). I asked 4 companies multiple times for a quote - I got 1 person to show up and estimate, Getting someone out this far from town is not easy.
Before I posted here I called the steel place and they refused to help size the beam, so Dave's method seems promising. I looked at other friends houses and they all have steel beams that range in size, so I am sure the weights per foot are different and there is a steel solution. I just want to make sure the money spent is right. I'd rather up the size of the beam if it is mediocre, and spend once, than have a recurring problem.
Thanks
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Old 04-14-2010, 10:30 AM   #12
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Local Lumber yard says exactly what Dave said (thanks dave) - LVL 3 ply 11.25" or 2 ply 14" (2.0e) is more than adequate. (and cheaper than the steel beam)
Now if I can compare that to a steel beam to see if the beam selected is strong enough (or overkill) before I decide. If anyone knows this or where to look (google terms) please let me know.
Thanks
/kilbert
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:36 AM   #13
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Support wall problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by kilbert View Post
by eye it sags 2" in the center.
L/360 means, e.g., for a span of 360 inches, the midspan deflection is 1". Some people find floors too bouncy at this level so they go with L/480. For the same L the deflection would then be [360/480]", that is 3/4".

If a 6" high joist sags 2", other things being equal a 12" high joist will sag [2/8]", i.e., 1/4".
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:46 AM   #14
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Support wall problem


Always best to be sure for beams
My lumber company provides a printout showing the load(s) point & data to support the sizing
And...for my addition they sent it out for an engineers stamp
Some sort of agreement with the supplier I imagine
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