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Old 10-10-2009, 10:35 PM   #1
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Subs Ethics Question


ETHICS Question...
I've been bidding out my 2nd story addition and I was almost set on one contractor who is licensed, bonded and communicates very well. Then another guy came along referred by a friend, his bid was less. I checked out his framer (who I found out is a general himself) and i LOVE his work. The contractor however, it turns out ISN'T licensed... I asked for his license number for 2 days straight and he finally sent me a proposal with it on there and when I checked "his" number online it was someone else's license AND it was suspended for bond not being current. I asked him and he said "Oh that's my partners name (his name is NOWHERE as personnel) and I don't know why it's suspended, etc etc etc

Now at this point, I don't trust this guy and don't want to use him. However I REALLY like the foundation / framer (who happens to also be a licensed GC too), who I later found out he just met himself on a referral for my job.

So he has never worked with this guy before but connected him with me thinking he'd have him do the job. Would it be ethical given the situation for me to contact the framer directly and ask him to work on my project with another contractor? Is it fair game?

Thanks for your feedback, I really appreciate it!

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Old 10-10-2009, 11:16 PM   #2
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You got some good sound advice at CT, from Chris Wright
Your just going to have to make a decision.
The lowest bid is usually just asking for trouble, and can sometimes cost you more than double in the end.
I think I would go with the first, licensed contrator, that communicates well. He probably has a higher price because he isn't trying to deceive you or cut corners.

Is there some reason besides money that your second guessing it?

What if someone died (god forbid) on your second story addition?
Wouldn't you feel better knowing that you hired a legitimate company, Insured for such a terrible situation.


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Old 10-10-2009, 11:20 PM   #3
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Well, the with first bid with the contractor I like, I haven't seen the framer's work... Other than that it's just 20k more. I was just so impressed with the other framer that I wanted to explore using him WITHOUT the GC I don't trust, since they've never worked together anyway...
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Old 10-10-2009, 11:30 PM   #4
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The first guy may or may not mind, letting you use your framer. His call.

I would get this figured out first, then go from there. James


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Old 10-10-2009, 11:34 PM   #5
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he told me he doesn't mind. the question is, is it ok to use the framer from the 1st guy
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Old 10-10-2009, 11:35 PM   #6
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I definetly would not hire the second GC, wrong license #, slow rolling you already. Hows he going to be halfway through the job. He's fired, lol.

If you can hire the first guy, and use your choosen framer, then great.

If not, I am sure your still in good hands, even if you haven't seen the other framer in action. James


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Old 10-10-2009, 11:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesHO View Post
he told me he doesn't mind. the question is, is it ok to use the framer from the 1st guy

Check him out, run your own personal investigation.
Look at previous projects, current project, talk to previous clients etc...

I love Google, for just such occasions. James


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Old 10-10-2009, 11:48 PM   #8
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I don't lie to my customers, I don't need to. As far as I'm concerned it's fair game.
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Old 10-11-2009, 07:00 AM   #9
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this is business - ANY repairs not done by a licensed contractor'll be your ticket to trouble,,, ethics do not apply to the unethical.

you already know the answer - go w/your gut !
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Old 10-11-2009, 07:23 AM   #10
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The lack of a license makes the GC ineligible to bid the job, therefore, if you have a contact with the framer, who is a licensed GC, then you can contact him directly, explain the issue, and offer him the project, not just part of it. Send the original GC a certified letter, explaining his services are not required, and why.
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Old 10-11-2009, 02:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joasis View Post
The lack of a license makes the GC ineligible to bid the job, therefore, if you have a contact with the framer, who is a licensed GC, then you can contact him directly, explain the issue, and offer him the project, not just part of it. Send the original GC a certified letter, explaining his services are not required, and why.
Well Said, especially the suggestion of the letter.

Keep the letter professional and courteous. State the reason = short and to the point.
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:03 PM   #12
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I think your obligation is to get the best possible work for the best price for you and your family.

It's the framer that has the moral issue. Would you prefer to hire someone that honors their responsibilities and treats people fairly?

Last edited by walkman; 10-12-2009 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 10-13-2009, 05:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joasis View Post
The lack of a license makes the GC ineligible to bid the job, therefore, if you have a contact with the framer, who is a licensed GC, then you can contact him directly, explain the issue, and offer him the project, not just part of it. Send the original GC a certified letter, explaining his services are not required, and why.
The framer is licensed as a GC and is therefore eligible to bid the entire job. Drop the unlicensed guy from your list, now!

Also check the need for Waivers of Lien from Subcontractors on residential building jobs in your state. Michigan instituted a stupid law (stupid only because most home owners have no idea what Waivers are) requiring home owners to collect Waivers from all subs.

Luckily Michigan repealed that law and replaced it with one placing the responsibility on the GC, who understands what Waivers are and is in position to collect them from their own subs.

But Michigan got the idea for the repealed law from somewhere, and you have already encountered one unscrupulous builder with just your second bid.
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Old 10-14-2009, 05:15 AM   #14
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Get a licensed GC, AND a permit (of course).

You forgot to mention how the references checked out; what did the poeple who had his work done thing (and check out more than just recent work to make sure it lasts)... I also check BBB to see if any major complaints exist.

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