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Old 11-11-2011, 03:57 PM   #1
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Subfloor T&G Layment Direction


I built a small office area in a metal building. Its like 8x12. Ceiling joists are 16"OC and run from one 8' wall to the other 8' wall. I bought some tongue and groove 3/4 inch plywood and laid it with the grain parallel to the joists (the T&G ends up laying on the joists (parallel to them). I did this to save time by not having to cut the wood. However, people say to lay the plywood subfloor with grain perpendicular to the joists where the T&G part is perpendicular to the joists. Also, to make it clear, i chose to use 3/4 inch subfloor so that i could get up on top of the office to either make it another work area, or storage area.

Do you think this is a big deal that i didnt do it the way its usually done or "supposed" to be done?

I dont see anything wrong with it. other than the fact its harder to line it up and situate the T&G evenly on a joist.

On a side note..

Also, i dont understand why they say to run the plywood with the grain perpendicular to the joist, isnt the grain of each layer of plywood perpendicular to each other? Is it just because of the T&G edges?

Also, the office isnt exactly a rectangle 2 corners are actually 45 degree 3' angled walls and the office is built around a 3x3 closet in another corner......sorry if thats confusing, i could upload a drawing, but i dont know how to without hosting it somewhere.....and im locked out of my flikr account. and im to lazy to host it somewhere else.....basically its actually smaller than 8x12.

thanks

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Old 11-11-2011, 04:11 PM   #2
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Subfloor T&G Layment Direction


Yep.....you did it wrong.

To get an idea of why it's wrong, go step on one of the 4' edges btween joists....without any T&G there, one side will deflect.

Don't feel bad.....I made that mistake once myself. Once I corrected it, I saw the difference it made.

I'm doing a 2-story addition right now....this is how the sub-floor looks on my 1st floor.



If you look where the kids are sitting (Thank God for McDonalds), you can also see how the sheets are staggared. This reduces the length of seams along the same line. The T&G needs to span between joists so as to support the edge.


edit: Your also going to have major issues nailing along the T&G seam. That T&G seam will split big time when you start nailing in to it.

If it's all down and you don't feel like pulling it up....then run another course of T&G over it but perpendicular this time.

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Old 11-11-2011, 04:38 PM   #3
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Subfloor T&G Layment Direction


well nothing deflects, theres no movement....its all nailed and screwed along all edges.....its just 3 sheets next to each other.....theres nothing for those 4' edges to T&G into...... they are installed like this ||| (each line is a sheet, joists run same way.)

i know i did it "wrong"......but is there really a need to change it? or add more?

i just used finishing nail gun with 2 inch finishing nails (so it wouldnt crack the wood)to hold the sheets in place so i could match up the T&Gs. then i screwed everything.......

basically not posible to deflect inbetween joists because all edges are nailed/screwed into a joist/2x6 even 4' edges.
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Old 11-11-2011, 04:44 PM   #4
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Subfloor T&G Layment Direction


running the subfloor to the joists makes the floor about 10 times stronger, having a 8 ft sheet run across 7 joists will stiffen the floor up and makes it less likely to "RACK", plus the joints in each succeding row should be offset to strengthen the floor that much more.

the first time i layed floor sheathing the one mistake i made was i installed a sheet upside down.. which makes the next piece harder to lock the tongue and groove together as the tongue isnt dead center of the sheet. if you do this repetively on a floor it makes for a uneven floor which drives hardwood installers insane... the framers did this on one house i finished and it was a nightmare
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Old 11-11-2011, 04:52 PM   #5
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Subfloor T&G Layment Direction


Quote:
Originally Posted by pretzels View Post
Do you think this is a big deal that i didnt do it the way its usually done or "supposed" to be done?
Yes, I think it's a big deal, because I've known the right way for the last 30 years. Is it going to present a huge problem? Most likely, no. Not as storage space that is. If it were to be living space, I'd either rip it out or put another layer over it, perpendicular to the joists.
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:41 PM   #6
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Subfloor T&G Layment Direction


not to be rude in any way....i respect yalls opinions.. thats why i am here asking you.

but to be clear. you guys are suggesting that i rip up 60 bucks (2 sheets) of plywood that cant be reused (they were cut to fit the angled walls)....buy an additionl 3 sheets to go with my 1(that i can reuse because it wasnt cut) for another 90 bucks.....and redo this all. when its only a less than 8x12 area, that may or may not be used in the future for storage.....or another rarely used work area or play area for the kids? not to mention i would have to cut each and every piece for more than just the angled walls.

im just trying to think about it a little more than just i did it wrong so it needs to be fixed soley for not being right.....but as in...i did it wrong....would it really cause an issue....and is the issue enough for more time and work, and another 90 bucks, and then the waste of the pieces i used....which will basically go to waste/trash cause i have no other projects to use them on...

also to be clear....im not disagreeing that it was done "wrong" nor am i disagreeing that the "right" way is better....and in no way do i want to drag this out into some huge thread of people barking at me. i simply want someone to look at my situation and give me the best advice while taking in every consideration. not telling me i should change it because its not right because thats not the way your supposed to do it, or because your experience tells you that the right way is better. the right way is better, i agree with you all, but is it actually better when comparing a larger floor done the right way to mine, which is done "wrong"

i just find it hard to believe that 3 sheets (actually with them cut, less than 3 sheets), nailed and screwed along every edge and into every joist, 16" oc. 2x6s....is worse then like a larger area done the right way. because the larger area would have most of the 4' edges not nailed/screwed to a 2x6 along their entire edges....as in parts of those 4' edges in a typical installation arent laying on a 2x6, however in my installation....every edge of every sheet has a 2x6 along it.

if that makes sense...

im trying to think of the whole picture here.

so we have already established that it was done the "wrong" way. i agree.

we have also established that the 4' edge would deflect because its not completely resting along a joist, and doesnt have T&G either...however that doesnt apply here, because like i said each and every edge is completely secure to a joist... each entire edge of each sheet is secure to a 2x6 joist.

is it really worth it to change it?
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Old 11-11-2011, 05:49 PM   #7
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Subfloor T&G Layment Direction


Not worth to change it.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:04 PM   #8
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Subfloor T&G Layment Direction


Quote:
Originally Posted by pretzels
not to be rude in any way....i respect yalls opinions.. thats why i am here asking you.

but to be clear. you guys are suggesting that i rip up 60 bucks (2 sheets) of plywood that cant be reused (they were cut to fit the angled walls)....buy an additionl 3 sheets to go with my 1(that i can reuse because it wasnt cut) for another 90 bucks.....and redo this all. when its only a less than 8x12 area, that may or may not be used in the future for storage.....or another rarely used work area or play area for the kids? not to mention i would have to cut each and every piece for more than just the angled walls.

im just trying to think about it a little more than just i did it wrong so it needs to be fixed soley for not being right.....but as in...i did it wrong....would it really cause an issue....and is the issue enough for more time and work, and another 90 bucks, and then the waste of the pieces i used....which will basically go to waste/trash cause i have no other projects to use them on...

also to be clear....im not disagreeing that it was done "wrong" nor am i disagreeing that the "right" way is better....and in no way do i want to drag this out into some huge thread of people barking at me. i simply want someone to look at my situation and give me the best advice while taking in every consideration. not telling me i should change it because its not right because thats not the way your supposed to do it, or because your experience tells you that the right way is better. the right way is better, i agree with you all, but is it actually better when comparing a larger floor done the right way to mine, which is done "wrong"

i just find it hard to believe that 3 sheets (actually with them cut, less than 3 sheets), nailed and screwed along every edge and into every joist, 16" oc. 2x6s....is worse then like a larger area done the right way. because the larger area would have most of the 4' edges not nailed/screwed to a 2x6 along their entire edges....as in parts of those 4' edges in a typical installation arent laying on a 2x6, however in my installation....every edge of every sheet has a 2x6 along it.

if that makes sense...

im trying to think of the whole picture here.

so we have already established that it was done the "wrong" way. i agree.

we have also established that the 4' edge would deflect because its not completely resting along a joist, and doesnt have T&G either...however that doesnt apply here, because like i said each and every edge is completely secure to a joist... each entire edge of each sheet is secure to a 2x6 joist.

is it really worth it to change it?
Yes...it is worth it to change it. The grain should never run parallel to the joists. It weakens the plywood.

But...having said that....your not liking the answer....so you asked and are told to change it....you don't want to....good for for...do what you want.

Nothing left for you to say....is there.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:31 PM   #9
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Subfloor T&G Layment Direction


Why should you do it right? Because you have no idea what you might want to do with it in the future. And at some point you may decide to finish the room correctly, and will have a heck of a time figuring out why the floor won't go down right. Yes, it's $90. But how much more will it cost in headaches down the road? But if you didn't want the correct answer, why did you ask?
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:10 PM   #10
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also, if this was to be inspected the inspector would fail it. plywood rarely has it stamped on it but osb does. "must be insalled perpindicular to the framing"..

most inspectors look for the stamp which shows which direction the sheets were installed. they see one installed wrong they'll make you remove it and install it correctly. dont do it they wont pass you thus you cant move along with the project. end of story
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:28 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
Yes...it is worth it to change it. The grain should never run parallel to the joists. It weakens the plywood.

But...having said that....your not liking the answer....so you asked and are told to change it....you don't want to....good for for...do what you want.

Nothing left for you to say....is there.

well yeah theres is more left to say.

you say the grain should never run parallel to the joists.

i mentioned that. Then i was asking a question (or if i didnt straight up ask, i hinted at asking the question) of how does the grain make a difference, because plywood is made with each layers of grain being perpendicular to each of the others.

so i believe that is a legitimate question of whats the difference. just telling me thats how you do it, isnt good enough....why, and what proof is there showing that it isnt good enough?

seriously, im not trying to be a smart @ss. i just would like an explanation other than....thats right or thats wrong....

i am in no way being negative, condescending, rude, or a smart @ss, im just asking....(or at least not on purpose, im sorry if the way i state or ask things seems that way....)
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:31 PM   #12
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Subfloor T&G Layment Direction


Quote:
Originally Posted by pretzels

well yeah theres is more left to say.

you say the grain should never run parallel to the joists.

i mentioned that. Then i was asking a question (or if i didnt straight up ask, i hinted at asking the question) of how does the grain make a difference, because plywood is made with each layers of grain being perpendicular to each of the others.

so i believe that is a legitimate question of whats the difference. just telling me thats how you do it, isnt good enough....why, and what proof is there showing that it isnt good enough?

seriously, im not trying to be a smart @ss. i just would like an explanation other than....thats right or thats wrong....

i am in no way being negative, condescending, rude, or a smart @ss, im just asking....(or at least not on purpose, im sorry if the way i state or ask things seems that way....)
Good luck!
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:42 PM   #13
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Why should you do it right? Because you have no idea what you might want to do with it in the future. And at some point you may decide to finish the room correctly, and will have a heck of a time figuring out why the floor won't go down right. Yes, it's $90. But how much more will it cost in headaches down the road? But if you didn't want the correct answer, why did you ask?
so explain to me how the floor wouldnt go down right? thats all you have to do to satisfy me....is that really that hard....is that really rude of me...

its not a room....its a ceiling to an office in a big open metal building. on which possibly i may store things, have kids play on like an indoor like treehouse type thing, or possible, but unlikely, have some other type of office-ish thing on top of......its not like going to be some high traffic area or some pristine show room or elegant living space......even then, if i use that space, it would need a rail, and other things that would make the actual usable space....like 6x6.

i want a correct answer.....and yall are giving correct answers.....just not pertaining to my question.....

i didnt ask if it was right or wrong.....

i know whats right or wrong.....its called google.....it takes 5 seconds, not a long thread on some forum....

im asking opinions with my actual situation, what i have done, how it compares structurally to the "right way," problems that you see occuring, and money spent, and money to spend, time, and lack of time.

lets say i just throw some cheap cheap, laminate, click lock type flooring down.....and at the most....had a ladder or steps go up to the top of it....put a rail on it.....and kids just screwed around on it.....

what issues do you see.
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:43 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by woodworkbykirk View Post
also, if this was to be inspected the inspector would fail it. plywood rarely has it stamped on it but osb does. "must be insalled perpindicular to the framing"..

most inspectors look for the stamp which shows which direction the sheets were installed. they see one installed wrong they'll make you remove it and install it correctly. dont do it they wont pass you thus you cant move along with the project. end of story

there will be no inspections
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:07 PM   #15
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Good Luck!
i have a feeling you mean that in a condescending way.

i live in rural texas an hour from a gas station and the nearest grocery store....i dont even think one house has ever been inspected with in a 30-40 mile radius of my home....much less an inspector even travels this far or exists in this area...

i build my stuff with my own cash, on my own private property thats all paid off, nowhere near an hoa.....or even city limits.....

am i really expected to get an inspection?

would any of you?

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