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Old 04-05-2010, 10:40 PM   #16
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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On the show, he put the foam directly on the concrete floor, he didnt use the dimpled plastic. My question was it is recommended here to put the foam directly against the concrete walls, would this recommendation hold true as well for the floor?

1 inch foam laid directly on the concrete floor then 3/4 or 5/8 plywood directly over the foam. Then both screwed into the concrete floor?

Thanks

Tom
To my mind, I would place the foam and plywood to butt against the bottom wall plate!
My walls are made from spruce, and I have used PT treated stand-offs (on 24" centre's) to allow the slab to breath. The lower plate is standard, construction grade spruce!

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Old 04-05-2010, 10:47 PM   #17
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subfloor over concrete in basement


I guess my three options for the subfloor are:

(1) Put 1 inch XPS foam directly on the concrete floor then 3/4 or 5/8 plywood on top and tapcon both the wood and foam to the concrete floor.

(2) Put down 6mm vapor barrier and use 1x4 pt sleepers with 3/4 or 5/8 plywood on top and use either 16 or 24 on center spacing for the sleepers. With 24 inch spacing can put 1/2 inch foam between the sleepers but there will be a gap between the foam and the plywood unlike option #1. where the plywood is directly ontop of the foam.

(3) Put down a plastic dimpled membrane and put the plywood directly on top of the dimpled membrane.

I was wondering if there is a preferred way. I read the building science and it looks like the dimpled way was recommended, but Im not sure how hard the floor would be and I dont know anybody that has done that.

Tom
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:31 PM   #18
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subfloor over concrete in basement


if i'm thinking about the same episode of holmes on homes that you are referring to, the foam padding has dimples as well. He describes it as egg carton for drainage and breathability. Here's a snapshot of it. Is this what you were thinking?
Attached Thumbnails
subfloor over concrete in basement-vlcsnap-2010-04-05-21h28m02s25.jpg  

Last edited by acerunner; 04-05-2010 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:31 PM   #19
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subfloor over concrete in basement


There is option #4! Dimpled plastic, 1" foam and 5/8" t/g subfloor!
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:00 AM   #20
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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if i'm thinking about the same episode of holmes on homes that you are referring to, the foam padding has dimples as well. He describes it as egg carton for drainage and breathability. Here's a snapshot of it. Is this what you were thinking?
The one I was referring to was in a basement. He put the XPS foam directly on the concrete then the plywood and then screwed it to the floor.

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There is option #4! Dimpled plastic, 1" foam and 5/8" t/g subfloor!

Do you have a brand name for the dimpled plastic?

Also do I attach the plastic first to the concrete floor then attach the foam and plywood to the floor through the dimpled plastic?
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:39 AM   #21
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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A very interesting link! Thanks!

In 1978, I built an attached garage on a concrete slab! At the time it seemed to me, to be a good idea to lay down 6 mil plastic sheeting, immediately under the slab and I have been well pleased with its performance!
The floor has been perfectly dry and has never cracked, even though the garage is unheated and has experienced temperatures ranging from 0F to 90F.
the fact that it is unheated contributes to why it still is working.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:48 AM   #22
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subfloor over concrete in basement


that range of temperatures indicate random crk'ing should've been expected,,, hi temps cause conc to expend & cold the exact opposite however good jointing patterns usually prevent random crk'ing,,, its just good practice to place vapor barrier under conc for most instances,,, in fact, engineers're spec'ing 15mil more & more.

can't speak to ' foam ' on conc - only miradrain/delta drain/sonnedrain ( generic )
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:42 AM   #23
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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the fact that it is unheated contributes to why it still is working.
There is more to the story though! I excavated the perimeter, down 16" and built a retaining form from 2, 2X8's. Inside the form I ran reinforcing and rolled out mesh reinforcing over the whole area!
The attached garage was 16X28 with a heated utility area at one end only!
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:55 AM   #24
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subfloor over concrete in basement


I was referring more to the fact of moisture problems not as evident in an unheated space. This means the change in temperature is less then pressure difference is less thus less moisture transfer and much less a chance of condensation.
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:22 PM   #25
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I was referring more to the fact of moisture problems not as evident in an unheated space. This means the change in temperature is less then pressure difference is less thus less moisture transfer and much less a chance of condensation.
Ah so! That makes sense, as it is sitting on a block of ice for 4/5 months!
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Old 04-06-2010, 06:53 PM   #26
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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The one I was referring to was in a basement. He put the XPS foam directly on the concrete then the plywood and then screwed it to the floor.




Do you have a brand name for the dimpled plastic?

Also do I attach the plastic first to the concrete floor then attach the foam and plywood to the floor through the dimpled plastic?
I did some research. I think that dimpled plastic stuff is called Delta FL (http://www.cosella-dorken.com/bvf-ca...roducts/fl.php). On HoH, he laid it down, taped the overlapping seams, layed down the t&g subfloor, and screwed it all down together with concrete screws.

Do you remember which episode that was (episode name or #)? I'm curious to see for myself what he did.

Last edited by acerunner; 04-06-2010 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 04-06-2010, 06:57 PM   #27
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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There is option #4! Dimpled plastic, 1" foam and 5/8" t/g subfloor!
That's a good idea. The dimple plastic looks like it only provides vapor/moisture barrier, but not insulation. Downside is that the floor will now be just as high as using sleeper floor setup.
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:21 PM   #28
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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I did some research. I think that dimpled plastic stuff is called Delta FL (http://www.cosella-dorken.com/bvf-ca...roducts/fl.php). On HoH, he laid it down, taped the overlapping seams, layed down the t&g subfloor, and screwed it all down together with concrete screws.

Do you remember which episode that was (episode name or #)? I'm curious to see for myself what he did.
Hey, thats an interesting product! Its distributed here where I live and it may very well be the answer to my situation!
It appears that laminate flooring can be laid directly over it!
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:34 PM   #29
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subfloor over concrete in basement


I am working on solving the water issues, sump pump, gutters draining into 4 inch pipes under ground and pipe running 100 feet away from house. Sealing cracks in floor, looking at drains around the sides of the house.

But also want to do what is the best on the inside of the house. I'm leaning toward the 6ml vapor barrier, maybe put down twice in opposite direction, the 3/4 inch XPS pink rigid foam board them 5/8 plywood over that. Is the 5/8 the thinnest that is recommended?

Water was never an issue before, but I dont want water issue again and just because this was a 100 year storm, doesn't mean its going to wait another 100 years.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:20 PM   #30
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subfloor over concrete in basement


Yeah.....a 100 year flood can happen 2x in a decade.....or not for 150 years again

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