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Old 04-01-2010, 08:03 PM   #1
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subfloor over concrete in basement


hello can somebody help we with the proper procedure for putting a subfloor down over the concrete floor in my basement. I know I need to put down something and was looking for what would be the minimum wood stringer and plywood to keep as much headroom as possible. Can I use like 1x6 pressure treated with plywood on top? whats the minimum thickness on the plywood and does it have to be tongue and grove?

Should I "cheat" and put the stringers on like 12 inch on center to make the floor more solid or with the 1x6 would 16 still be okay?>

Could I use some composite decking as the stringers or is that not structurely sound enough?

Thanks

Tom

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Old 04-02-2010, 02:26 PM   #2
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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Originally Posted by ctkeebler View Post
hello can somebody help we with the proper procedure for putting a subfloor down over the concrete floor in my basement. I know I need to put down something and was looking for what would be the minimum wood stringer and plywood to keep as much headroom as possible. Can I use like 1x6 pressure treated with plywood on top? whats the minimum thickness on the plywood and does it have to be tongue and grove?

Should I "cheat" and put the stringers on like 12 inch on center to make the floor more solid or with the 1x6 would 16 still be okay?>

Could I use some composite decking as the stringers or is that not structurely sound enough?

Thanks

Tom
I am doing the same thing, as you are!
I plan to use 2'X2' tiles that are constructed from OSB (oriented strand board) on top and vinyl under-neath!
The vinyl is formed in such a manner, so as to allow air circulation underneath.
They just lay in place and can be lifted if required!

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Old 04-02-2010, 04:15 PM   #3
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subfloor over concrete in basement


I already used the dricore but the basement flooded over the dricore and its ruined and needs to be taKen out, also once they are down they don't come out Because they are lockexdtogether
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:45 PM   #4
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subfloor over concrete in basement


http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...ms?full_view=1

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Old 04-03-2010, 12:08 AM   #5
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
A very interesting link! Thanks!

In 1978, I built an attached garage on a concrete slab! At the time it seemed to me, to be a good idea to lay down 6 mil plastic sheeting, immediately under the slab and I have been well pleased with its performance!
The floor has been perfectly dry and has never cracked, even though the garage is unheated and has experienced temperatures ranging from 0F to 90F.
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:14 AM   #6
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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I already used the dricore but the basement flooded over the dricore and its ruined and needs to be taKen out, also once they are down they don't come out Because they are lockexdtogether
If you experience flooding, most floors will be damaged and will have to be removed!
With this in mind, I have considered ceramic tile but someone painted the floor and I'm worried about the tile bonding.
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:36 AM   #7
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subfloor over concrete in basement


EVERYTIME i take the cheap option, it comes back to bite me in the *** either by having to sit/stand/drive by & LOOK at it or watching it break/fail & having to replace it w/what i shouldda done/bought before

i congratulate you for not having the debilitating character defect i battled often in my ' beginning-homeownership-years ' youth also having done my own bsmt once ( or twice as the case may be ), laying down 6mil is minimal,,, newer product's been developed - 15mm polyesther-reinforced - you can get it at any const supply house,,, i'd use that instead of the vp 6mil stuff.

vapor barrier - 2x4 p/t'd flat sleepers 16"o/c over that - sub-floor of ( MIN ) 3/4" t&g 5-ply's what we found's best for a bounce-free, quiet, comfortable floor finally !
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:00 AM   #8
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subfloor over concrete in basement


Here are some pics where you can see the water wicked (I think) through the seams of the floor. The center are dry but the edges are not. I don't think it will dry enough to be useful as Im concerned about mold and the woood warping.

The problem I see taking it out is I put the drircore down first leaving a gap all the way around the perimeter. Then I put 2 inch foam over the wall and on top of the dricore. Then I build the walls on top of the dricore leaving about 1/2 inch from the wall. The walls screwed into the dricore and every 8 feet the sole plate is power nailed through the sole plate and the dricore into the concrete floor.

There is about 4 inches of dricore I will not be able to remove.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:08 AM   #9
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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Originally Posted by itsreallyconc View Post
EVERYTIME i take the cheap option, it comes back to bite me in the *** either by having to sit/stand/drive by & LOOK at it or watching it break/fail & having to replace it w/what i shouldda done/bought before

i congratulate you for not having the debilitating character defect i battled often in my ' beginning-homeownership-years ' youth also having done my own bsmt once ( or twice as the case may be ), laying down 6mil is minimal,,, newer product's been developed - 15mm polyesther-reinforced - you can get it at any const supply house,,, i'd use that instead of the vp 6mil stuff.

vapor barrier - 2x4 p/t'd flat sleepers 16"o/c over that - sub-floor of ( MIN ) 3/4" t&g 5-ply's what we found's best for a bounce-free, quiet, comfortable floor finally !

The 15mm polyester reinforced product you are talking about do you have a trade name? Two different local lumber yards didnt know what I meant. Also is there a special way to install this or is the installation similar to the traditional 6mm poly?

I was going to lay down 1x4 with 3/4 tongue grove on top with 16 on center hoping that would be enough for a non bounce floor but still not lose a lot of headroom.

The 2x4 with the 3/4 plywood is over 2 inches and makes the center beam a head hazard and the last stair step would be all goofy.

So Im lost at what to do
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:27 AM   #10
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subfloor over concrete in basement


understand - that's because lumber yards aren't const supply houses,,, they'll all carry a product by now,,, if you've got a headroom issue, 1x4's would be good.

you're not lost - just mis-directed a bit hope you get lots of eggs tomorrow - Happy Easter !

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Old 04-03-2010, 01:12 PM   #11
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subfloor over concrete in basement


Quote:
Originally Posted by itsreallyconc View Post
EVERYTIME i take the cheap option, it comes back to bite me in the *** either by having to sit/stand/drive by & LOOK at it or watching it break/fail & having to replace it w/what i shouldda done/bought before

i congratulate you for not having the debilitating character defect i battled often in my ' beginning-homeownership-years ' youth also having done my own bsmt once ( or twice as the case may be ), laying down 6mil is minimal,,, newer product's been developed - 15mm polyesther-reinforced - you can get it at any const supply house,,, i'd use that instead of the vp 6mil stuff.

vapor barrier - 2x4 p/t'd flat sleepers 16"o/c over that - sub-floor of ( MIN ) 3/4" t&g 5-ply's what we found's best for a bounce-free, quiet, comfortable floor finally !
Following GBR's link, the article cautions against a non-permeable barrier on the topside of a concrete floor, as it prevents moisture from being released from the concrete.
He also warns against vinyl flooring for this reason!
If moisture from the concrete, condenses on the under-side of the vapor barrier, I would think that this could allow mold to grow!
This fellow seems to have presented some very convincing arguments.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:54 PM   #12
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subfloor over concrete in basement


So if I understand the article correctly, and Ill admit a lot of it was a foreign language

I need to put some type of epoxy coating over the concrete floor, then extruded polystryene then the 1x4 sleepers with the plywood on top of that.

Or if I want to use carpet I need to put a plastic dimpled sheet membrane, then the extruded polystryene and the plywood ontop of that (without any sleepers).

I added a picture for the first description, was unable to add the second as it was too big. I hop with proper reference to the author and article it does not violate the copy right. I wanted to add them as a reference so when the expert DIYers answer my question they see what I am talking about.

For documentation here is the reference/footnote.

http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...ms?full_view=1

Insight, Concrete Floor Problems

By Joseph Lstiburek
Building Science Insight 003: last updated 2009/06/29


Page 6




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Old 04-05-2010, 02:46 PM   #13
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subfloor over concrete in basement


Watching Holmes on Holmes today he just put down 1 inch foam and then plywood I think 5/8 on top and tapcon the combination to the floor. Any thoughts on this type of subfloor instead of sleepers and plywood. Im guessing the floor would be hard as the foam can support quite a bit of weight.

Thanks
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:51 PM   #14
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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Watching Holmes on Holmes today he just put down 1 inch foam and then plywood I think 5/8 on top and tapcon the combination to the floor. Any thoughts on this type of subfloor instead of sleepers and plywood. Im guessing the floor would be hard as the foam can support quite a bit of weight.

Thanks
I think that its important that the slab can breathe! So, as long as it can 'vent' via the dimpled plastic, I would agree that the foam, between the plywood and the concrete, would be fine!
Putting down the sleepers may cause problems, like mold growth or if PT, gassing into the living space!
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:45 PM   #15
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subfloor over concrete in basement


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I think that its important that the slab can breathe! So, as long as it can 'vent' via the dimpled plastic, I would agree that the foam, between the plywood and the concrete, would be fine!
Putting down the sleepers may cause problems, like mold growth or if PT, gassing into the living space!

On the show, he put the foam directly on the concrete floor, he didnt use the dimpled plastic. My question was it is recommended here to put the foam directly against the concrete walls, would this recommendation hold true as well for the floor?

1 inch foam laid directly on the concrete floor then 3/4 or 5/8 plywood directly over the foam. Then both screwed into the concrete floor?

Thanks

Tom

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